Comments about Revit classes for AU 2008

[pdavis]

I am curious about what others think about the course selection for Revit this year at AU. I work for Phil Read who is the Power Track coordinator, so I will not publicly express my comments out of fear he will make me use MicroStation. If you have any comments, also include how many times you have been to AU and what you think your Revit skill level is.

Thanks.

[Scott Womack]

I am curious about what others think about the course selection for Revit this year at AU. I work for Phil Read who is the Power Track coordinator, so I will not publicly express my comments out of fear he will make me use MicroStation. If you have any comments, also include how many times you have been to AU and what you think your Revit skill level is.

Thanks.

This will be my 14th year at AU. I've been using Revit for 4+ years, and consider myself adept at it.

The course selection is a little lacking on truly advanced courses. This is however typical of AU overall. The Power Track is good for slightly better than beginning though the middle level users.

[gwnelson]

My 4th coming up this time. I'm also a little disappointed with the lack of depth for Revit but there are a few that might make the trip worthwhile - ones about solving problems (the inscrutable error message box, I hope).

And I might also take a few extra days for golf.

[BomberAIA]

Not enough sessions on Multifamily which would include Groups, Building Types & Unit Types.

[Rick Houle]

First thing i did was sort the class list by "Advanced" and "Power User" and saw very few classes in Revit... (3 maybe?)

I am appreciative to see courses on the "Large Model" theme that i can now compare against my own experiences... but i suspect them to be mostly intermediate skill level. Most of my better users would take these courses in stride.

It is nice (and predictable) to see the "Green" courses as well. I grabbed a couple to stay in the loop, though i feel it's all still green-wash at this point (for me).

I find that my schedule starts to include Max/Render courses and API courses just so i am sure to pick something up at the event, if only for myself...

Beyond all that, I am looking forward to two Revit classes: "Horrible Hacks" and "Fuzzy Math"... that's about it.

We are in need of more advanced classes, more inside-the-family classes, more intriguing classes. (But i suspect the target audience is "intermediate" as a whole, so... it is what it is... I may send my "No.2" next year if this is all we get.)

[sbrown]

this will be my 5th AU, I've taught a few classes and an advanced lab last year. I was frustrated that even though I listed that class for advanced users only, many beginners went to it and made it hard to move forward as quickly as I would have liked. So its tough to do advanced classes because there isn't any way to control who signs up. I understand it, I would have gone to the advanced too.

Anyway...

I would like it if the advanced users could get together one day or night for a few hours and have an advanced user group type session where we share our common issues and solutions. Maybe we can ask AUGI to arrange for a meeting room for us to use and a projector. We can take turns pluggin in our laptops and go over whatever comes up. Some topics I'd like to get everyone discussing together are.

1. Interiors
2. Grouping Vs. Linking for hotel/multi-unit projects
3. Documenting large projects - Best practices for linking, annotating, etc.
4. Naming conventions for Familys, Parameters, Views, etc.
5. Shared coordinate issues with DWG's and large sites.

Please add and then if anyone has contacts that could get us a room to meet in we'll see what comes of it. We should probably set a time limit for each topic.

My hope would be to just meet with all the "super users" and come up with our best practices that then we can take back and share with our offices.

[jeffh]

this will be my 5th AU, I've taught a few classes and an advanced lab last year. I was frustrated that even though I listed that class for advanced users only, many beginners went to it and made it hard to move forward as quickly as I would have liked. So its tough to do advanced classes because there isn't any way to control who signs up. I understand it, I would have gone to the advanced too.

Anyway...

I would like it if the advanced users could get together one day or night for a few hours and have an advanced user group type session where we share our common issues and solutions. Maybe we can ask AUGI to arrange for a meeting room for us to use and a projector. We can take turns pluggin in our laptops and go over whatever comes up. Some topics I'd like to get everyone discussing together are.

1. Interiors
2. Grouping Vs. Linking for hotel/multi-unit projects
3. Documenting large projects - Best practices for linking, annotating, etc.
4. Naming conventions for Familys, Parameters, Views, etc.
5. Shared coordinate issues with DWG's and large sites.

Please add and then if anyone has contacts that could get us a room to meet in we'll see what comes of it. We should probably set a time limit for each topic.

My hope would be to just meet with all the "super users" and come up with our best practices that then we can take back and share with our offices.


Maybe they will do the UN-Conference thing again this year. If anyone went to those sessions last year they were really good. They were able to get to more of these advanced type topics. Perhaps contact Joseph Wurcher(sp?). and see if those are going to happen again this year.

[sbrown]

Yes, the un-conference was the highlight for me last year. I haven't heard anything about it yet.

[Rick Houle]

Yes, more high-density multi-unit housing attention would be nice.

I have never heard of the un-conference or Advanced user group at past AU's...
How can i be assured that i get that information this time around??

I think it is a great idea and should recur annually. I wonder how you can keep the attendee list down, or qualify those who attend...

[dlpdi5b]

This will be my 4th AU; I would say my skill level is strong intermediate to low expert. When I go to AU I am looking for two levels of training:
1. Classes that are clearly above my ability level and will inspire me to dig and figure out more and let me know what it is that I don't know.
2. Classes that I can follow in detail and pick up subleties about things I already know but can improve on or understand more fully.

One of my special treats at AU is seeing people like Steve Stafford and Dave Baldacchino and Phil Read (and several others) doing things that were way above where my everyday work is, but inspire me to go further. That seemed to be a little light in this years schedule.

I also really like the AU unconference sessions last year and strongly endorse Scott Brown's suggestions above. I think you don't want to exclude lower level users from the high level sessions, but rather emphasize at the beginning that all are welcome to listen but the discussion needs to be focused at a high level to keep it specific and useful. Watch the AU website for information about AU Unplugged Sessions.

The other Revit information we really need are the best practices, the workarounds, the tips, and understanding about what revit can't do easily yet and how you deal with it. I would like to see a lot more family creation classes, and a curtainwall class.

[ron.sanpedro]

I am curious about what others think about the course selection for Revit this year at AU. I work for Phil Read who is the Power Track coordinator, so I will not publicly express my comments out of fear he will make me use MicroStation. If you have any comments, also include how many times you have been to AU and what you think your Revit skill level is.

Thanks.

I am hoping next year there can be two power tracks, one for Implementing Revit, and one for Revit Power Users. There is just too much breadth to cover as a single track, and a HUGE need for some more advanced classes. For example, while I enjoyed Mr. Wing's class on classical stairs and balusters, the truth is I will never, ever use one of them. But I sure would like to see an advanced Revit class on Modernist Stairs and Rails, with things like glass panels, cable rails and wire mesh covered. An in depth discussion of the best way to deal with flat roof drainage (over sloped structural slabs) on complex footprint buildings with tight parapet tolerances would sure be nice. I don't need to know how to do a Dutch Hip, however. ;)
In general I would rather see 5 50 person classes on a variety of topics as compared to one 250 person class on a generic topic. But I don't want to see the generic class eliminated, because BIM is only going to succeed if the number of new users is always more than the running sum of experienced users. But still, a 50/50 split as far as number of butts in seats, with more small in depth classes for the advanced users, and big classes for those just starting to drink the cool-aid.

Oh, you mention MicroStation as punishment. In an effort to get people into Revit we have deployed AutoCAD 2009 with no customization. One look at the Ribbons and resistance to Revit falls quickly away. ;)

Gordon

[davidcobi]

Oh, you mention MicroStation as punishment. In an effort to get people into Revit we have deployed AutoCAD 2009 with no customization. One look at the Ribbons and resistance to Revit falls quickly away. ;)

Gordon
Interesting tactic gordon.

I went to AU 2006 and learned a few things, but nothing I would apply in this office. Best Practices for remodels and how best to document large projects would be helpful. Or just simply a class on best practices for the most challenging Revit tasks.

What do others find are the most challenging Revit tasks?

[Kevin Janik]

I like Scott's idea and similar to others would like to view advanced content. I am not that advanced but to glean from advanced and expert users would be great even to just listen.

Also, best practices would be great!

Kevin

[Steve_Stafford]

As the "insider" that I am :smile: I can confirm that the Un-Conference will return to AU this year. Stay tuned for info at the BLAUG (http://au.autodesk.com/blogs/BLAUG/) blog for details.

[ededios]

This will be my fourth time attending AU (skipped 2005). I was hoping for some more advanced sessions, but I'm more intermediate almost advanced, I hope to be closer to advanced come December :) wishful thinking but I'm Revit 100% and I'll take advantage!

I didn't get a chance to go to the Un-Conference last year, but some colleagues of mine did and I missed some great sessions. I won't miss it this year.

[joseph.wurcher]

AU unConference now accepting topics

http://au.autodesk.com/blogs/view/AU-Unconference_Call_for_Topics/

--Joseph

[mlgatzke]

This will be my 9th AU. I, like the rest of you, would like to see more classes in the advanced category to choose from. Gordon, I like your idea of 2 power tracks. It would make choosing classes SO much easier. Those interested in implementation would sign up for that track and those interested in a Power User track would take that one.

Also, along with Scott and Steve: (Steve, you didn't say anything, but I know you've run into this too)
Autodesk MUST devise a better policy regarding beginning users signing up for courses above their level. I have been in far too many classes where beginning users take the class and become quickly overwhelmed, start asking far too many basic questions, require far too much orientation to the topic and slow the rest of the class down. When this happens you can hear the sighs in the crowd of those advanced users slapping their foreheads in disgust. With the resources available to Autodesk, they've GOT to figure out a better way to deal with this situation. Personally, I've had this happen in classes I've been excited to attend, then get disgusted when this happens. Perhaps Autodesk should have a disclaimer appear when a user signs up for an advanced level class, that they have to agree to, stating that the subject material is for advanced users and that the instructor is not responsible for users who are not ready for such high-level material.

[cdatechguy]

I recall last year at the Revit Lab a few people realizing they were way over their heads and walking out. This opened the computer I was sharing with someone else to just me. I found I was able to learn more without trying to slow down, or speed up, for the person next to me.

That was from my first year and I will be attending this year as well. It seems that AU is my best opportunity to learn more. I attempted CAD Camp this year but was rather disappointed. But more advanced classes without getting into the API would be great!

I agree though about the difference of Advanced vs Beginner. Maybe the presenter could ask what level people are at and let the advanced people have first run at the computer and the beginner can just watch?
The advanced user could explain what is happening to the other user without disrupting the speaker..keep business cards at ready for future "What did you do again to make this work" questions... :)

[wjspence]

Keeping beginning users from slowing down the class can be easily controlled by the presenter. I saw Lynn Allen do this recently at one of her famous Tips and Tricks seminars by beginning the session with, "No questions please, until I have finished the presentation." She quickly followed that statement with the comical, "and hopefully we will run out of time and I won't have to answer any questions." She kept it light and when interrupted deflected it with a gentle - and usually funny - reminder to save questions till the end. It worked well, I got to hear the whole spiel, and we all got our moneys worth.

It may not be fair to advanced users whose questions would enhance the discussion, but at least the prepared material could be covered and more people would get a lot more benefit.

- Just a thought.

Bill Spence
Parsons
Austin, TX

[Steve_Stafford]

...Keeping beginning users from slowing down the class can be easily controlled by the presenter...A lecture maybe but not in a lab... :smile:

Most people when asked to rate their ability to drive a car will rate themselves as good to excellent. Nobody considers themselves a bad driver but clearly there are some who are?

It is part of the baggage of teaching (and attending) a lab. This year will have more students per lab than previous years (100 vs 80, 2 per PC). There are more assistants, 4 instead of 2. In the labs I did I asked students to allow the more experienced student to drive, with mixed success. In some cases the more experienced often ended up guiding the less experienced while they "drove"...more "assistants" as a result.

A lab that is intended for advanced students should have a "filter" but I don't know how Autodesk can enforce it. The instructor could be evil and tell someone who is confused by something basic to leave? That's going to generate a bad survey :wink: I did "kick" out a couple users in a beginners lab who were too experienced for it so the room monitor could let more basic students in...and I asked them to help others.

It is hard and we try hard to make the most of it.