Revit V's ArchiCad

[Kenny Gee]

I wonder if any1 out there can help me with the benefits of using Revit versus ArchiCad. As I'm totally unfamiliar with Achicad as I can only assume some of you fine people may have had experience with this software
I may have trouble converting some ex-archicad people undermining Revit - ahh, the joys of implementing Revit......

[Jun Austria]

I wonder if any1 out there can help me with the benefits of using Revit versus ArchiCad. As I'm totally unfamiliar with Achicad as I can only assume some of you fine people may have had experience with this software
I may have trouble converting some ex-archicad people undermining Revit - ahh, the joys of implementing Revit......

I did a powerpoint presentation for my colleagues who are using Archicad and was the official BIM software being used in the office.

I did a comparison. Used Archicad for 3 months. Then after that I said "no more".
Archicads weakness is modelling. How fast and how you model it makes a big diffrence in production. They argue "but our architects are not modeller". This I disaggree. Once you drive a car you become a driver. Once you start using a Building Information Model(ling) software you become a modeller.

Archicad is cheap but you still have to buy "EXTRA" plug-ins just to accomplish something
thats not included in box. And I hate the way the view rebuild itself everytime you switch views. It just cost me so much time.

Anyway, attached is one of the screen cap from my powerpoint. An "Out of the Box" comparison. In my presentation, theres a video that correspond to each point in Revit.
It rendered them speechless. Hope you can do the same to them.

Goodluck.

[Kenny Gee]

Thanks junaustria. Much appreciated mate.

Hopefully other people ad there 20 cents or sen (Malay) to this post.

[iankids]

Hi kmannix,

I trialled Archicad V10 for several months before trialling Revit. There were a number of things within Archicad which were very nice. However, there are a number of major drawbacks as well.

Whilst they maintain that one can export to AutoCad, in reality, I found it less than satisfactory, which means of course when one needs to send a file off the the engineer or whoever there is a good deal of sorting out to do. Export - Open in Autocad - correct all the lines and colours - finally save to which ever version of AutoCad the engineer is using.

The final deal breaker for me was the convoluted way which shadow diagrams were created which I found very, very difficult to either do quickly or be confident were correct. (Hate to go to VCAT with dodgy shadows!!??)

The current version of ArchiCad may well have fixed up these and other matters, but all in all, my view now is that Revit is a far superior package.

Cheers,

Ian

[Jun Austria]

Using the Archicad tutorial handout. I did an external rendering. As you can see, Revit can project a proper Architectural Perspective. Meaning, at normal eye level. Everything are vertical. The interior perspective was done by our intern. Note the quality of mental ray.

As in Archicad... well a picture can tell you a thousand words.

[patricks]

The 3-point vs. 2-point perspective you're showing really only has to do with camera position and direction. If you look up, or anywhere other than exactly horizontal from the camera's elevation, then you will have 3-point perspective in Revit just like in the Archicad rendering.

[Joef]

.
Note the quality of mental ray.

As in Archicad... well a picture can tell you a thousand words.

Is the interior rendering Archicad? It looks very grainy and slightly out of focus.

[winnwgomez]

I also heard that you cant do massing in ArchiCAD. it seems you have to use Maxonform to model the 'mass', but cannot convert it into building elements like you would in Revit, using the Revit Building Maker. Is this true?

I 've been hearing of their plugin ArchiFacade. which is usefull fot curved curtain glass..

any more input would be welcome!!


winn

[Wagurto]

Not to mention that you need a Phd to master Archicad. I've tried archicad since v4.0 and I couldn't get use to the program ever.

[davidcobi]

I've only done the tutorial that comes with ArchiCAD. It was fairly simple to use. Most of the tools are the same as Revit only named differently. The one big difference I've heard is that most ArchiCAD users don't create their own content. They typically just use the library that comes with ArchiCAD.

Our office is very particular about graphics so we had to go with a program that makes custom content creation as easy as possible. Content creation is not the easiest thing to do in Revit but I've heard it's easier than ArchiCAD.

[Jun Austria]

.

Is the interior rendering Archicad? It looks very grainy and slightly out of focus.

Ooopss.Forgot to mentioned. It was rendered from Revit by an student intern.

[Jun Austria]

The 3-point vs. 2-point perspective you're showing really only has to do with camera position and direction. If you look up, or anywhere other than exactly horizontal from the camera's elevation, then you will have 3-point perspective in Revit just like in the Archicad rendering.

Thats one (of the) thing I like about Revit. It adhere to architectural descipline. The same with 3dsmax "camera correction" modifier and my Canon's 24mm TS-E lens. :-)

[brett12]

Kmannix, The best thing you can do is to goto a Archicad Reseller and get them to demonstrate what Archicad can do to Aus standards and how. Then goto a Revit reseller and do the same and then make up your mind with what you have seen. My experience with Archicad in NZ is that it can do what we need simply,but to do the same standard in Revit is unachievable (I have asked the experts in NZ, the Revit reseller). Door & Window Schedules, Bracing Calcs,etc. No Localised versions yet. Archicad has got NZ covered by a excellent reseller. Seems to me Revit is to Americanised,which you would expect. So if they are to compete downunder they need to improve in the ways we need.

[Jun Austria]

Content creation is not the easiest thing to do in Revit but I've heard it's easier than ArchiCAD.

Content creation is easy in Archicad. You can get them from from Autocad or 3dsmax and convert to Archicad object. But theres a catch. Its not parametric. The parametric feature is the best so far I have seen in Revit.

[Jun Austria]

Door & Window Schedules.

This is the part both software failed in our region.

Archicad Doors and Windows Schedules tabulation is top notch. I can format the look the way we do it in Autocad. But the problem is the graphical part. Archicad can display the doors and window elevation in the schedule but its not smart enough to be annotated by dimension ( cannot dimension the custom pattern on the panel ) or section.

As in Revit. Doors and Window Schedule tabulation is dictated by Revit (This is what we got, use it). Its good if you are doing an ironmongery schedule. And to do a graphical representation of the doors and windows, each one have to be manually laid on the schedule. The good thing is, I can annotate and draw on the panel. :-)

[brett12]

but its not smart enough to be annotated by dimension ( cannot dimension the custom pattern on the panel ) or section.

Wrong again, like most of your original list example in the thumbnail. You should have got some expert user to show you how most of those examples you said can't be done, can be done in Archicad. (A few can't be done) You showed how little you know about the workings of Archicad by the statement, "And I hate the way the view rebuild itself everytime you switch views. It just cost me so much time." A simple setting,to rebuild or not to rebuild. I don't intend to argue the cans and can'ts, just correcting obvious inaccuraties.

[Norton_cad]

Kmannix, The best thing you can do is to goto a Archicad Reseller and get them to demonstrate what Archicad can do to Aus standards and how. Then goto a Revit reseller and do the same and then make up your mind with what you have seen. My experience with Archicad in NZ is that it can do what we need simply,but to do the same standard in Revit is unachievable (I have asked the experts in NZ, the Revit reseller). Door & Window Schedules, Bracing Calcs,etc. No Localised versions yet. Archicad has got NZ covered by a excellent reseller. Seems to me Revit is to Americanised,which you would expect. So if they are to compete downunder they need to improve in the ways we need.

In my previous role as Application Specialist, for an AutoDesk reseller, based in Sydney, Australia; I can definatly confirm that all the local content in Revit is available, and schedules work great. For structural design Revit MEP is the way to go. AutoDesk may be American, but it is a global product, that every consultant uses. I fail to see what could be unachievable for you in Revit. Perhaps you could explain, or show an example?

Kmannix, ArcihCAD may have some cool features, and has allot of bugs (viewports, CAD export etc). Also not having parametric content, and endless add on's, dosn't enamour an end user. Revit on the other hand dosn't have any of these problems, is used globally, and will be around allot longer than ArchiCAD. Besides, ArchiCAD users smell of cabbages.

[Jun Austria]

You should have got some expert user to show you how most of those examples you said can't be done, can be done in Archicad.

The thing is, theres no expert here in Archicad and Revit to teach us. Both reseller are not educated in architecture.

Being a beginner or maybe my background in Autocad and 3dsmax. I was able to adapt faster in Revit then Archicad. I can do things faster in Revit considering the fast paced environment.

I'm still learning Archicad at same time with Revit. I didnt turn my back on it. Coz we have two projects being produce in Archicad now. While Revit is about to start only with one.
IMHO. I'm happy for what I'm using now. And what the office going to adapt. :-)

[brett12]

I fail to see what could be unachievable for you in Revit.

As I said the reseller in NZ and alot of the users here continually complain about the poor Door and window schedules. Your the one that needs to back up your statement. Post an example of a dimensioned DW schedule of every DW in the project that takes less than a minute to compile.(That's what Archicad can do) I and it seems every other Revit user would love to know how. Yet more false statements about Archicad. You sound like a reseller wanting a sale at all cost. Not helping original questionaire.

[Joef]

."
A simple setting,to rebuild or not to rebuild. I don't intend to argue the cans and can'ts, just correcting obvious inaccuraties.

If you choose not to rebuild does this mean that the changes you made in a different view are not reflected in the new view? I suspect so. Much like Vectorworks. Constant updating the view to see the up to date model. This is something a Revit user would find frustrating. I know I found it so frustrating I simply stopped using Vectorworks as a 3d modeller and wouldn't look twice at Archicad.

[trombe]

Kmannix, The best thing you can do is to goto a Archicad Reseller and get them to demonstrate what Archicad can do to Aus standards and how. Then goto a Revit reseller and do the same and then make up your mind with what you have seen. My experience with Archicad in NZ is that it can do what we need simply,but to do the same standard in Revit is unachievable (I have asked the experts in NZ, the Revit reseller). Door & Window Schedules, Bracing Calcs,etc. No Localised versions yet. Archicad has got NZ covered by a excellent reseller. Seems to me Revit is to Americanised,which you would expect. So if they are to compete downunder they need to improve in the ways we need.


Brett,
Revit can do anything you need in NZ , you just need to set it up to suit.
Do you think Jasmax, HMA, Opus et al would have gone Revit otherwise ?
I have used it since Revit 4.5 and seen its steady development and it it certainly an awesome tool....if you want to do wall bracing such as required by NZS 3604, you can do this with a Brace family, or, you could buy one already done form a local NZ reseller.
Like you, I would not want to mention names here necessarily, but if you are talking experts I assume you really mean in the lower north island and further south.

You might try reading up on Brace in Help and do reading on families.

You can insert your brace with a wide range of family types and get it to schedule giving up BU's etc as necessary for element length and height and including the rake modifier. Set up VG settings to suit in your templates as well as family settings.
I dunno why you would want to do that now anyway but at least you do have the power to make it happen in Revit without external applications...
I get the Engineer to do it for the consent docs and only play with some of the elements here and there to get a general sense of the likely impacts on design. I used to do it when I started but its just not the go now.
regards
trombe

[brett12]

Revit can do anything you need in NZ , you just need to set it up to suit.

Unless you have experience with Archicad and what it can do it pointless trying to explain here. I contacted the only reseller in NZ (so they advertise) and explained what Archicad can do for NZ conditions, (residencial) to see if Revit could do the same thing. Everything I asked, which wasn't obvious in Revit's help and demo, he said Revit couldn't do.

Some examples, A DW tool that will do infinite DW better than the standard Archicad DW with automatic DW schedules dimensioned.

One click profiled roofs with flashings,ridges,barges,spouting,fascia soffits, placed automaticly all at once.

One click profiled wall claddings with Window sills, facings, soakers,cavities etc, placed automaticly all at once.

One click foundations of any shape, placed automaticly all at once.

One click NZS 3604 bracing, places all braces with schedule all at once. No setup.

There were others, these are all API's free to NZ's

Having read your forum for 18 months, to see what it can and can't do, hearing from the local reseller,my observations and the demo of Revit,I am perfectly happy that Archicad is the best tool for NZ. Obviously Revit should be the best tool for USA.

Back to the original question, assuming Aus conditions are similar to NZ, and our API's are available all over the world to suit there conditions, he is encouraged to see each Product worked by experienced users, and then judge for himself.

Cheers

[JamesVan]

...Besides, ArchiCAD users smell of cabbages.


...You sound like a reseller wanting a sale at all cost. Not helping original questionaire.

Gentlemen,

Let's keep this thread focused on a professional level and continue the debate on the products, not each other. If you don't know one another personally, please refrain from generalizations and accusations. I'd hate to start editing posts for the sake of our other readers.

Remember, every person/user is unique in their experience with one platform or another. I noticed on the Archicad/Revit comparison slide that there were only 4 or 5 favorable items on the Archicad side. I went through their "BIM Experience Kit" or as I like to call it - "BIM by Numbers" - and can list at least that many cool features that are DIFFERENT than Revit. I say 'different' - not better - because I really haven't pushed Archicad hard enough on a real project to voice an objective opinion.

[cdatechguy]

I use both programs...Revit during the day and ArchiCAD 12 at home. Its because of ArchiCAD that I believe I have a such a strong knowledge of Revit. The basics are the same for both programs. You can create walls, floors, roofs and create sections and elevations from those. There are differences in the programs as well. In some cases Revit has a better grasp of that control, but in others ArchiCAD is way better.

If you really want to get more into this do a search....there are quite a few threads about this issue that has pages upon pages of info.

All I can say is this, ArchiCAD to me is a great program for residential constuction, but I know people that have created skyscrapers with the program with no problems. For what I do on a day to day basis Revit is ideal and I like the worksharing better that the teamwork feature in ArchiCAD. Also I totally prefer the family creation in Revit over the GDL format for ArchiCAD. I could probably be a wizard in GDL if I focus my time in learning it like I did with Revit, but I just don't have the time or budget to do so.

Take a look at the ArchiCAD wiki pages and forums, there is lots of great info there and you may see some familiar faces there from here.

[saeborne]

Hi All,

Joining the conversation late... In another post on this forum, I wrote the following comparing Revit and ArchiCAD:

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=84515


Our firm had been using ArchiCAD for over 10 years. Up until recently, our office was the largest US firm using ArchiCAD (in terms of the number of licensed seats).

Now, I liked ArchiCAD quite a bit. As an intern, I thought it was easy to learn, and in the earlier releases, the whole PlotMaker add on appealed to my graphic design sensibilities. But I soon came to understand that we weren't really leveraging the capabilities of the application, in the full BIM sense.

We found that we simply couldn't get the 3D elements to behave as we wanted. We couldn't control how elements appeared in elevation, and consequently, we ended up drafting all of our elevations. Everything in the elevation views was linework. Period.

Ultimately, ArchiCAD was reduced to a drafting tool with some nifty ADT like features.

Perhaps ArchiCAD v11 has vastly improved. I wouldn't know, because the last version that I new well was v9. But back in version 9, I felt the 3D window was extremely clunky. It was difficult / time consuming / outright impossible to manipulate objects in 3D environment.

For example, any time we moved a wall in plan view, the application would make a little beep as it regenerated the 3d window for a few seconds. I can honestly say that I HATE that beep now. Through some Pavlovian response, I now associate that beep with lag and delay, and a loss of productivity.

--

In contrast, Revit lives up to the promise that ArchiCAD failed to deliver. 3D elements are actually 3D. Elevation views are real elevations. Sections are real sections. The 3d environment is fluid and easy to navigate / manipulate.

This isn't really proof or evidence. Merely my experience, as we've moved our office from ArchiCAD to Revit.

Hope it helps a bit.

Bryan


To expand upon these comments... In about two months with Revit, I was very comfortable with the family modeling environment. I was able to generate custom content, whether it was simple PLAM millwork, or complex, PV integrated, multi layered facade. I could make it as parametric as I wanted.

Now, I knew GDL better than anyone at my old office. I was able to create custom library parts for symbols and other annotative elements. I found it IMPOSSIBLE to create any 3D geometry using GDL.

-Bryan

[Jun Austria]

I noticed on the Archicad/Revit comparison slide that there were only 4 or 5 favorable items on the Archicad side.

Well, that was the cool thing I found in Archicad 11. In AC12, another cool thing I like is the 3D dimensions and making object transparent by selection not by category. :-)

[Scott D Davis]

another cool thing I like is the 3D dimensions and making object transparent by selection not by category


In Archicad?? Both can be done in Revit so I'm confused.

[Jun Austria]

In Archicad?? Both can be done in Revit so I'm confused.

Sorry Scott. Can't seem to find that image again in Archicad forum with the 3D dimension.

The image was a 3 point perspective view. In shaded mode with edges.
The view was annotated with dimension that follow the 3 point projection.

I use to do this during manual drafting when I was designing furniture and small objects. But not for buildings.

For the Transparent feature, What I know in Revit, you can set the Category Transparent in the "Visibility/Graphic Overrides for 3D View" window. I'm a beginner, I'm not sure this can be done (see attached image). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Revit can't dimension in a 'perspective' view but as Scott pointed out, dims are possible ina 3D view.

You can override the graphic properties by category or by element. To do so, select the element(s), right click and Override Graphics in View > By Element and the check the 'transparent' check box in the dialogue. You can also do it by filter criteria.

[Jun Austria]

Revit can't dimension in a 'perspective' view but as Scott pointed out, dims are possible ina 3D view.

You can override the graphic properties by category or by element. To do so, select the element(s), right click and Override Graphics in View > By Element and the check the 'transparent' check box in the dialogue. You can also do it by filter criteria.

That blew me away. Suddenly images flashes before, possibilities that I can do with it.
Thanks Dimitri. Thank You very much.

[Kenny Gee]

I appreciate every1's feedback. I really do.
We had purchased afew Suites of Revit 6 months back. So we are very early on in the implementation phase. I discussed Revit to my other workmates and afew of them were familiar with Archicad so I wanted to find out more - hence this thread....
There is no wavering us off the Revit boat - but its nice to have a comparison as I'm sure Archicad can do afew things better that Revit. I'm sure Revit has more things it can do that Archicad cannot.
I'm really happy with Revit at this stage but at the same time there are alot of things that should be improved (for example the modeling tools - being able to model more organic geometry. Hopefully they incorporate some of Maya/Max modeling tools) etc...We'll see how we go.
Again, thanks for the ammunition if I get questioned - Why not Archicad????

[twiceroadsfool]

Ease of use, plain and simple.

And as a qualifier, i used ArchiCAD for almost a year, back in release 9. Im not saying its any less capable, as youve no doubt found in this thread, both have positives and negatives, and archicad can do some things that revit cannot, or it does them better, and vece versa.

For me the difference was: 9 months in with ArchiCAD, i was good at it. I was building models, making walkthroughs, producing documents, etc. I never got good at content creation, and i had gotten better at "getting the software to do what i wanted." (For what its worth, the rengerating every view was friggin rediculous).

9 months in for Revit, i was modeling, producing documents, making walkthoughs, making parametric content, scheduling, rendering, and doing anything else i could manage with it.

It just "feels easier and faster" to work with. I cant qualify that statement as anything more than a "butt dyno," but im sure opinions vary on that too. But having used a lot of platforms for Architectural Production work (Vworks, Acad, Archi, Revit, Gehrys DP) i can safely say (to myself) that while it may not be the most capable (cuz DP is an animal), its the most efficient for what i personally do in my day to day in an architecture firm.

But every firm needs to evaluate that on their own. Good luck!

[deanpaton]

Brett,
Do you think Jasmax, HMA, Opus et al would have gone Revit otherwise ?


By way of qualification - I have been using Revit for the last 4 years having come to it via AutoCAD and using ArchiCAD (up to version 8) before that. I work for a large 300 plus person UK practice and am at the forefront of their Revit users, as I was when I used ArchiCAD (back in NZ).

In my experience big company's will just use the software provider that they already use. As Revit is bundled with AutoCAD (in the UK anyhow) it is easy for them to justify changing to a perceivably more compatible product from the same seller i.e. Autodesk.

DWG exports from Revit are still rubbish and never the same as if the drawings where prepared in AutoCAD, a fact that big company tend to ignore, which is frustrating as this is one of their arguments for not evaluating other products like ArchiCAD.

That said - I find Revit pretty good on the whole but like all of the users that I know 'its great when it works, but when it doesn't its a real bastardo'. It appears to have a 'Tourette's' affect on most users. Don't get me wrong - its still very good most of the time, I just don't recall running up against so many brick walls when I used ArchiCAD.

Revit it soooooooooooo slow, and that is our number one frustration. Autodesk needs to sort this out. ArchiCAD is blindingly fast and very well written software, looks good too.

AutoCAD is dead to me - dead ,dead I tell you. Revit or ArchiCAD - both very good IMO...




dean

[BIMTom]

In my experience (on Archicad 8 through 12), the biggest things Archicad has over Revit are:
1) version 12 is multithreaded. NICE speed boost!
2) The "pet palette" lets you edit shapes of things you've already drawn, like making a straight wall curved or adding a jog into a straight line. It can accomplish a lot of what "Sketch mode" can do, it's just faster.
3) The whole GDL vs. Family thing. Families are WAY easier to make, but GDL, as a programming language, does have more power if you really dig into it. It's just a shame that you have to become a programmer to learn it. (It's based on BASIC, but there's a lot of custom commands in there)
4) "Find & Select". It's like filters, only with more options, like "Select all walls that are shorter then 5'-0" high"
5) Visual Previews. Any time you pick a wall type, object, or fill from a list, it has a preview of what it looks like. Revit's use of lists everywhere makes it a little harder to know what you're picking.
6) Editing sheet order is handled via Drag-and-Drop, making it really easy to change the order sheets are in or what folder they are in. (folders are manually created, but can be used to control sheet numbering and subsets)

It's a short list and I'd call most of them "inconveniences", not deal breakers.

[hand471037]

1) version 12 is multithreaded. NICE speed boost!

Indeed, but is it really faster? Sure it's doing what ArchiCAD did prior faster, but is it still overall slower than Revit? The reason I ask is I remember a firm I was consulting for that was finishing up it's ArchiCAD 10 (IIRC) pilot projects (they were moving to Revit) and one of their major complaints was how slow the view regenerations were when their were changes. I mean, so what if it generating a section is now twice as fast, when it was around 15 minutes prior and 7 minutes now, when with Revit it's more in the seconds?


2) The "pet palette" lets you edit shapes of things you've already drawn, like making a straight wall curved or adding a jog into a straight line. It can accomplish a lot of what "Sketch mode" can do, it's just faster.

I'd love to see something along these lines in Revit. I find myself doing a lot of repeitive Sketches and parts of Sketches, and something like this would save me time. I submitted it as a wish to the wishlist, but that don't mean much.


3) The whole GDL vs. Family thing. Families are WAY easier to make, but GDL, as a programming language, does have more power if you really dig into it. It's just a shame that you have to become a programmer to learn it. (It's based on BASIC, but there's a lot of custom commands in there)

Now that you can 'embed' your API-based programs into Revit, I wonder if this is moot. You could already do more or less 80% of what GDL can do just within Revit by using Parameters, Formulas, and Nested / Shared Families (if you really knew your stuff). Now that you can have your own custom program 'ride' with the content I wonder if the rest is now possible. I'll need to dig into some stuff more now.


) "Find & Select". It's like filters, only with more options, like "Select all walls that are shorter then 5'-0" high"

You know, while I really wish Revit had better selection tools, I've more than once just used a schedule to do what you're talking about here. I'll make a schedule with Filters, and then by either editing the present parameters directly or by picking on elements in the schedule, and then switching to a different view, auto-select groups of things. I've mostly done it with modeling structural steel frames, using the exact thing you talk about here: picking all the elements within a certain length and editing them in one broad stroke.

So I'm kinda using a throw-away schedule as a project-wide custom selection tool, if that makes any sense. It's easy to show what I mean.


5) Visual Previews. Any time you pick a wall type, object, or fill from a list, it has a preview of what it looks like. Revit's use of lists everywhere makes it a little harder to know what you're picking.

Indeed. I wish the Project Browser had Thumbnails. That would pretty much solve this one in a really eloquent way.


6) Editing sheet order is handled via Drag-and-Drop, making it really easy to change the order sheets are in or what folder they are in. (folders are manually created, but can be used to control sheet numbering and subsets)

That is cool, but how automated is the inital sheet creation? I've not worked with ArchiCAD seriously since version 8, when you'd have to set everything up with Plotmaker...

[Scott D Davis]

1) version 12 is multithreaded. NICE speed boost!

AC 12 is partially multi-threaded. It is not a completely multi-threaded application. Certain aspects of the program have been written to take advantage of multiple processors, such as view creation and saving/opening files. In this regard, Revit is partially multi-threaded, as rendering takes advantage of multiple processors.

While I hope that Revit is a more completely multi-threaded app someday, the fact that its 64 bit capable now has a greater impact on the program as a whole, as each process in Revit can handle much more RAM as needed. It's not selective to certain parts of the program.

View creation did improve in AC due to v12. There were some stats on the AC website just after the v12 release that claimed view generation is down to "minutes" now in AC 12. That info is no longer on the website.

[Simon.Whitbread]

Unless you have experience with Archicad and what it can do it pointless trying to explain here. I contacted the only reseller in NZ (so they advertise) and explained what Archicad can do for NZ conditions, (residencial) to see if Revit could do the same thing. Everything I asked, which wasn't obvious in Revit's help and demo, he said Revit couldn't do.

Some examples, A DW tool that will do infinite DW better than the standard Archicad DW with automatic DW schedules dimensioned.

One click profiled roofs with flashings,ridges,barges,spouting,fascia soffits, placed automaticly all at once.

One click profiled wall claddings with Window sills, facings, soakers,cavities etc, placed automaticly all at once.

One click foundations of any shape, placed automaticly all at once.

One click NZS 3604 bracing, places all braces with schedule all at once. No setup.

There were others, these are all API's free to NZ's

Having read your forum for 18 months, to see what it can and can't do, hearing from the local reseller,my observations and the demo of Revit,I am perfectly happy that Archicad is the best tool for NZ. Obviously Revit should be the best tool for USA.

Back to the original question, assuming Aus conditions are similar to NZ, and our API's are available all over the world to suit there conditions, he is encouraged to see each Product worked by experienced users, and then judge for himself.

Cheers

I don't know which 'reseller' you spoke to, but there are three Revit resellers in NZ....


AEC Systems (Revits RAC, RME and STR)
CADPRO (Revit STR)
Salesoft (Revits RAC, RME and STR)


As to comparisons - all the Archicad NZ capabilities are add-ons that local resellers are really great at adding into the package at 'no extra cost'. But who pays for them then? Nothing good in this life is free...the local tools are good, but API development none the less.

I've lead Revit Architecture implementation for NZ's largest Architecture company, and to my knowledge, they are still happy with the results 4 years on.

All the companies I've worked with since, (whether in NZ, AU or farther afield), have been more than satisfied with the move from AutoCAD to Revit. In fact some have transitionedd from ArchiCAD to Revit.

Most ArchiCAD users find Revit easier and more intuitive to use.

Twiceroads is right - its up to the individual companies and what is suitable for them.

my 2cents

[BIMTom]

Indeed, but is it really faster? Sure it's doing what ArchiCAD did prior faster, but is it still overall slower than Revit? The reason I ask is I remember a firm I was consulting for that was finishing up it's ArchiCAD 10 (IIRC) pilot projects (they were moving to Revit) and one of their major complaints was how slow the view regenerations were when their were changes. I mean, so what if it generating a section is now twice as fast, when it was around 15 minutes prior and 7 minutes now, when with Revit it's more in the seconds?

It's faster than it was by quite a bit. It's still annoying to wait for sections/elevations to rebuild and sheets to update.

As Scott pointed it, it's not like all processors are running at all times. It's just when you are rebuilding views, a concept Revit doesn't really have.


So I'm kinda using a throw-away schedule as a project-wide custom selection tool, if that makes any sense. It's easy to show what I mean.

I used to do that once in a while. The issue with Archicad's solution was that it could only select elements in your current view. Anything multi-story required you to work in the 3D window. Sometimes schedules were the only way to select what you wanted.

On that note, I really wish you could schedule "workset" in Revit. That would make for a quick way to edit which Workset elements were in when you first turn on worksharing. (I know, you should workshare early enough, but that's not always the way it happens!).


That is cool, but how automated is the inital sheet creation? I've not worked with ArchiCAD seriously since version 8, when you'd have to set everything up with Plotmaker...

The sheet creation is a lot better than it used to be (with the Plotmaker integration in Archicad 10. Plotmaker was a technology we were all glad to see die). Creating the sheets is pretty much the same as in Revit. Right click > Create New Sheet. The nice part is that if you right click on a sheet that already exists, Archicad puts the new sheet right behind the one you right-clicked on.

Was there some other kind of sheet creation automation you had in mind?

I'm in the process of changing my company from Archicad to Revit now. I have to say, there are a few things about Revit that bug me, but I really do like Revit better (as do most of our users).

[Alex Page]

Besides, ArchiCAD users smell of cabbages.

Hey - thats unfair....I smell of cabbages but I only use Revit

[cdatechguy]

I've been getting back into Archicad again recently....and I keep wondering why I can't select walls and constrain them to levels? Why can't I create multiple views of the same plan? Why can't I filter out stuff that I don't want when I do a cross select?

Sigh...

I think I have been away from Archicad too long....I want to use Revit instead.

[AP23]

I’m not sure if this has been said before in this tread, but the most important thing that Archicad has over Revit, is the Mac compatibility. Presently, this may not such a big deal in the USA for Autodesk, but particularly in Europe where increasing numbers of firms are becoming Mac based, this is the deal sealer.

[cdatechguy]

Probably not in this thread but in the many other Revit vs Archicad threads that was mentioned. :)

Actually, I learned ArchiCAD on a mac when I worked for a log home company....We were using ArchiCAD 6 at the time...

[Scott D Davis]

I’m not sure if this has been said before in this tread, but the most important thing that Archicad has over Revit, is the Mac compatibility. Presently, this may not such a big deal in the USA for Autodesk, but particularly in Europe where increasing numbers of firms are becoming Mac based, this is the deal sealer.

Not really so much of an issue, as we have many customers running Revit successfully on Macs using Bootcamp.

[mark.98140]

Not really true Scott. This tends to bring up numerous issues in reality. For one, in-house computer network technicians loathe using two operating system platforms and will almost always blame the bootcamp setup for any issues that arise. This quickly gets resolved over time with managment saying all we go all pc... this is the reality for most firms, to say otherwise is being rather blinkered to the reality of office protocols. Secondly, bootcamp requires dual booting to use the rest of the software on the mac side, very impractical... again a no no for offices... using Parrallels or equivalent is not a realistic option for larger models, rendering or again having issues with backup software, network compatability etc... So for Auotdesk to say they have a working solution for macs is simply not realistic... we don't simply use Revit and Bootcamp... most of us using macs will have other software we need, be it photoshop spreadsheets etc, that are mac based... to say just get pc software denies the basis of the reason people like to use macs... it is not jus the hardware, but the well integrated software option... i for one would welcome a mac version of Revit... they do it for Maya.... surely the market for Revit is getting to a point that if available people would choose it... again... build it and they will come... Autodesk should look at the likely market that selects Archicad and Pcs by the lack of choice to see the potential market that exists... my thoughts :)

[Henry D]

=mark.98140;908640... using Parallels or equivalent is not a realistic option for larger models, rendering or again having issues with backup software, network compatability etc... So for Auotdesk to say they have a working solution for macs is simply not realistic... we don't simply use Revit and Bootcamp... most of us using macs will have other software we need, be it photoshop spreadsheets etc, that are mac based... to say just get pc software denies the basis of the reason people like to use macs... it is not jus the hardware, but the well integrated software option... i for one would welcome a mac version of Revit... :)
I agree... I would also like a Mac version of Revit. have a Mac and hardly ever boot into the Mac partition. So I basically have a PC. Running Revit through Parallels and Fusion is too slow for me. I am happy with my decision to get a MacPro, when I bought it it was about $1,500 less than the equivalent PC through Dell and it is a wonderfully designed box.

[hand471037]

I’m not sure if this has been said before in this tread, but the most important thing that Archicad has over Revit, is the Mac compatibility. Presently, this may not such a big deal in the USA for Autodesk, but particularly in Europe where increasing numbers of firms are becoming Mac based, this is the deal sealer.

While it's true that it runs on a Mac, I've got to admit as a Mac user I'm far from impressed by ArchiCAD's implementation within OS X.

Unless there were big changes in v12, the fact that it 'runs' on OS X isn't really a selling point for me. We're an all-Mac shop more or less, but ArchiCAD doesn't make use of ANY of the OS X system advantages (Applescript/Automator, 64-bit OS, Xgrid rendering, the list goes on...). It also seems really clunky, I mean, IIRC it took them some sweet time to release a universal binary even.

So there really isn't much difference between running Revit via a VM & running a program that doesn't make any use of OS X, other than I don't have to pay for the VM + Windows license with ArchiCAD. Unless the cost of ArchiCAD + plug-ins < Revit + VM, or is that much more productive than Revit + VM, there really isn't any business sense in going 'native' with ArchiCAD on OS X as far as I see it right now.