Placing Light Fixtures On a Reference Plane

[paulb.194993]

For those of you who have found out that a Link model of a reflective ceiling plan does not host light fixtures, you need to create a reference plane at the elevation of the face of the light fixtures. WARNING!!!.......Draw the reference plane from right to left and NOT left to right, otherwise the light fixtures will be placed upside down

[sschwartz85916]

For those of you who have found out that a Link model of a reflective ceiling plan does not host light fixtures, you need to create a reference plane at the elevation of the face of the light fixtures. WARNING!!!.......Draw the reference plane from right to left and NOT left to right, otherwise the light fixtures will be placed upside down

That's good to know, thanks for sharing! :beer:

[mwiggins121466]

You can also create your familys as face-based to mount on the face of the ceiling.

[mjdanowski]

Paul,

Are you having issues with standard Revit lighting fixtures from Autodesk? Ceiling based fixtures haven't been around in a long while with Revit MEP.

As mwiggins said, face based fixtures should be able to host on a ceiling in a ceiling plan. If you are still having trouble placing them on a ceiling make sure you:

A) have the "Place on face" selected instead of "Place on vertical face"
B) have the plan underlay set as "Reflected ceiling plan" in the view properties.
C) make sure that your view depth is set correctly. This is the one that seems to get me the most, especially on projects with varying levels.

[BigBadBIM]

For those of you who have found out that a Link model of a reflective ceiling plan does not host light fixtures, you need to create a reference plane at the elevation of the face of the light fixtures. WARNING!!!.......Draw the reference plane from right to left and NOT left to right, otherwise the light fixtures will be placed upside down

I posted a thread (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=84033&highlight=upside+down+revit+lights)about this a while ago.

I did discover that if you draw your plane from right to left the "bottom" is down. It's related to the way Revit draws anything. Walls drawn right to left have the ext down (in plan) drawn left to right the ext is up.

In the above post our client was having issues with the system family "ceiling basic:generic" which it turns out is a ceiling that is just basically a plane. Even face hosted objects host upside down to this. Like levels, "ceiling basic:generic" has it's "face" up.

You can read more about it on my blog here (http://whosafraidofthebigbadbim.blogspot.com/2008/07/are-generic-revit-components-2nd-class.html) and here (http://whosafraidofthebigbadbim.blogspot.com/2008/07/2nd-class-no-more-well-soon-anyway.html).

[BigBadBIM]

Here is a quick video (http://www.screencast.com/t/zhbGLvUYxFi)that tries to explain what happens with the refernce planes.

[Simon.Whitbread]

I think you guys are missing the issue here.

Just as YOU want a good model from the architect, he in return should be able to have the same back.
Using reference planes to place lights just isn't best practice and you should be looking at 'face' or 'workplane' based families.
The example content supplied by Autodesk has gone away from the specific 'ceiling' mounted families for this very reason. Plan your families well, and they will work for most situations without the need of reference planes

[darin.marsden]

If you link the architects drawing into your file, the lights do NOT recognize the ceiling so you are faced with a dilema, copy the ceiling into the new drawing (duplication), redraw the ceiling (slower duplication), insert on a plane (it's an answer), or create and insert unhosted lights. The next option is to add the lights to the architects file and have them copy them into the central file.

Any other options???

[Simon.Whitbread]

If you link the architects drawing into your file, the lights do NOT recognize the ceiling so you are faced with a dilema, copy the ceiling into the new drawing (duplication), redraw the ceiling (slower duplication), insert on a plane (it's an answer), or create and insert unhosted lights. The next option is to add the lights to the architects file and have them copy them into the central file.

Any other options???

This is one of the reasons Autodesk introduced a large range of FACE BASED families - see my examples (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=900904#post900904)

[JoelLondenberg]

If you link the architects drawing into your file, the lights do NOT recognize the ceiling so you are faced with a dilema, copy the ceiling into the new drawing (duplication), redraw the ceiling (slower duplication), insert on a plane (it's an answer), or create and insert unhosted lights. The next option is to add the lights to the architects file and have them copy them into the central file.

Any other options???

The lights do not recognize the ceiling as a "ceiling", but they do recognize it as a surface. When placing face hosted families don't forget to select the correct face option (see screen shots). When trying to place your light on the reflected ceiling use "Face" not "Vertical Face".

[BigBadBIM]

The lights do not recognize the ceiling as a "ceiling", but they do recognize it as a surface. When placing face hosted families don't forget to select the correct face option (see screen shots). When trying to place your light on the reflected ceiling use "Face" not "Vertical Face".

You guys make a lot of good points. It is great that, when using a faced based component, if the ceiling is deleted in the linked model the lights don't delete they just disassocite with that face and stay where you put them.

One problem that still remains. The sytems family "Basic Ceiling:Generic" still will host lights upside down whether they are ceiling hosted or face hosted. It seems that this family is just a plane and it's face is on the upper surface. For what its worth.

[darin.marsden]

When the lights are placed onto this linked file (maybe that's the problem) they want to associate with the floor, not the ceiling,

[BigBadBIM]

When the lights are placed onto this linked file (maybe that's the problem) they want to associate with the floor, not the ceiling,

In the example I posted it's actually the ceiling that is causing the problem. Linked file or not, you get the same condition.

If the ceiling is ANY other than the Basic Ceiling:Generic then it's no problem.

[JoelLondenberg]

...One problem that still remains. The sytems family "Basic Ceiling:Generic" still will host lights upside down whether they are ceiling hosted or face hosted...

This is true, however, the overall workflow ends up being easier to tell the lights to flip rather than create plains for all ceiling heights and manually update them if the architect changes their mind (they never do that, right?)

[mwiggins121466]

create plains for all ceiling heights and manually update

You don't have to manually update. Align and lock your reference plane to the ceiling.

[JoelLondenberg]

You don't have to manually update. Align and lock your reference plane to the ceiling.

But what about when they started with all 10' ceilings - you use a single ref plane for whole floor, then they switch it up to some 8', some 10' and so on? Best practice is going to be face hosted on the linked ceiling because this give you the best chance of keeping coordinated with the ceiling in each room.

[Simon.Whitbread]

You don't have to manually update. Align and lock your reference plane to the ceiling.

use of multiple reference planes in you model will kill performance, face hosted or level based objects are best practice as already suggested by Joel.

[mwiggins121466]

Well you all have not come across the fact that there is a problem with "some" ceilings and face-hosted fixtures in that when arch has to make a change to a ceiling your fixtures will get zinged all over the place!

SR# 1-4135871951 - Light fixtures are moving

This is an update to your Support Request. Our development team has reproduced your reported issue. Your Support Request is now with a review board to determine next steps. Taking into account the severity and associated risks identified in your Support Request, the issue may be remedied; if so, a tentative date will be set for the remedy.

The development team will notify us of the review board's decision and we will notify you immediately by email whenever your Support Request is updated. We appreciate your patience as we work to resolve your Support Request.

Please note: Not all issues identified in Support Requests are considered significant enough to address in their entirety; a proposed correction may create significant stability risks; some issues may be impossible to fix due to product architectural restraints. Whenever possible, we will work with you to establish an acceptable workaround.

For now, until I receive more information, the best workaround I can provide is to rehost the light fixtures after they've moved

Choose your poison. We have gone back to using non-hosted fixtures until this gets fixed.

[simonrogers85]

When I try and place face based objects on linked ceilings it for somereason hosts to the underside of the floor above the ceiling. How can I make it host to the ceiling instead?

Thanks in advance.

[Simon.Whitbread]

When I try and place face based objects on linked ceilings it for somereason hosts to the underside of the floor above the ceiling. How can I make it host to the ceiling instead?

Thanks in advance.

Get the first one in there by going to a 3D view so you can ensure the fitting is being placed on the correct surfave, then swap back to plan view to carry on with copying etc.

[simonrogers85]

Ok cheers.

Originally I created my electrical model by stripping everything out of the architectual model I didn't want and doing a Save As.

I kept the ceilings as the lights were ceiling hosted. Is there an easy way I could now change my ceilings so they update to match the linked architectural ceilings as they keep changing throughout the project?

[Simon.Whitbread]

Originally I created my electrical model by stripping everything out of the architectual model I didn't want and doing a Save As.

Probably not the best way of starting as you won't have any of your settings in the architects file. There are lots of posts on best practice for this, but essentially...

Link the Architects file
Copy / Monitor LEVELS and GRIDS
Create you own views
I kept the ceilings as the lights were ceiling hosted. Is there an easy way I could now change my ceilings so they update to match the linked architectural ceilings as they keep changing throughout the project?

You should be able to rehost the lights onto the linked architects file. That is the only way of automatically ensuring lights move WHEN the architect changes his mind. I have found that sometimes having fittings based upon the LEVEL with an offset works better - sure, you will still have to coordinate, but nothing is perfect

[simonrogers85]

Ok cheers simon.

One other issue -

I am trying to create a lighting family that can host to the underside of a floor of a linked in Architectural model. Is this possible, or do you need a dummy ceiling? I have tried with a face-based light but doesn't seem to work. any tricks?
(using revit MEP 2008)

[BigBadBIM]

Ok cheers simon.

One other issue -

I am trying to create a lighting family that can host to the underside of a floor of a linked in Architectural model. Is this possible, or do you need a dummy ceiling? I have tried with a face-based light but doesn't seem to work. any tricks?
(using revit MEP 2008)

Maybe give a little more info about what you mean by "it doesn't seem to be working."

When using the faced based families, make sure you click in the options bar "Place on face" since "Place on Vertical face" is the default.

Good luck.