Building performance analysis with Revit

[jeffh]

Since I was one to vote yes on the poll I will be the one to make the first post here too. :-)

If you are a user of Green Building Studio (or plan to be at some point) you might want to take a look at this white paper. It gives some tips and best practices for creating a Revit model to get good results out of Green Building Studio. Some of the steps to getting a good model might not necessarily be in your current workflow or thought process when modeling for construction documents. This document will cover some simple alterations you can make to your Revit model so you can achieve the best results.

The white paper can be downloaded from the following link. (Too big to attach here)

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=9587284

[truevis]

...
If you are a user of Green Building Studio (or plan to be at some point) you might want to take a look at this white paper. ..
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=9587284

I see a paper about using IES and another one about Revit MEP. Am I missing something? I'd like to see a recent paper on GBS, especially since they have been annexed by Autodesk.

https://www.greenbuildingstudio.com/Tutorial.aspx says "the file is damaged and cannot be repaired." :Oops:

[jeffh]

The second paper at the link I listed is the one I am talking about. The methods used to get a robust model for analysis are the same if you are analyzing in IES or GBS.

I am not sure what is wrong with the link you posted at the GBS website.

[mcuevas]

Thanks for the info Jeff. I'm just curious to know how many people are actually using Revit with Green Building Studio? There doesn't seem to be many that I know of. I've used green building studio a few times and the information I got out of it was more than I was looking for. I hope to see more people using it in the future, and I hope to see Autodesk further develop the software.

[truevis]

...I am not sure what is wrong with the link you posted at the GBS website.
The "Autodesk Revit® Architecture and Revit® MEP with GBS (javascript:__doPostBack('LinkButton1',''))" link is broken.

[sbrown]

I've tried unsuccessfuly to get anything out of GBS, everytime i create the gbxml file it says this file will most likely return meaningless results. I've tried with a single 1 room space with a floor and roof, still same message.

[jeffh]

I've tried unsuccessfuly to get anything out of GBS, everytime i create the gbxml file it says this file will most likely return meaningless results. I've tried with a single 1 room space with a floor and roof, still same message.


Perhaps some of the suggestions in this whitepaper can help return better results??? Some of the techniques in there are not things Architects would normally do when modeling a building for construction documents. With some slight modifications to the model/modeling techniques a better model for analysis can be created.

[mcuevas]

I've had it work with a couple of models that I created. However I do think there is much room for improvement on the user interface side. We as architects aren't used to creating models the way a lot of analysis tools like to have the models created. Right now if you create a model and you try to export it, you just get an imbiguous error message. It would be much more helpful to know what exactly caused the error, area not enclosed, area's overlap, area enclosed within another area, etc..

[Scott D Davis]

I've tried unsuccessfuly to get anything out of GBS, everytime i create the gbxml file it says this file will most likely return meaningless results. I've tried with a single 1 room space with a floor and roof, still same message.

Volume calcs were on? You must turn on Volume calculation before you export gbXML.

[sbrown]

Yes Volume calcs are on. I gave up trying for now. All I did was create 4 walls, a flat roof a floor. place a room , turn volume calcs on and export. Still failed.

[ws]

FWIW I've just also just spent several hours trying the same thing with no success on a new, simple Revit 2009 project.

I watched a demonstration of the full IES package at a 'BIM Working Group' meeting, the other day and have a demo disk, but I started as IES suggest with the basic free Revit plug-in.

The white paper can be accessed from the IES<VE> menu in Revit by clicking the 'model guidance' option.

After carefully working through all the things that could be wrong the 'Set Model Properties' command on the IES toolbar still keeps returning an error to the effect that there are no bounded spaces in the project, even though this is just a single room with walls, floorslab and roof, all set as room bounding etc.
I've also trawled the IES forums, the IES FAQ list etc.

Ho hum.

IMHO the bewildering array of module options offered by IES and the lack of any pricing information is irritating enough but spending more time on transferring the project successfully into IES' product than actually modelling the design isn't going to win it many friends among Revit Architecture users soon, or at all.

It all feels unfinished - at least from a Revit user's perspective. Maybe the Sketchup version of the plug-in is a better bet? ;)

There was speculation at the event I attended about what Autodesk was going to do with Ecotect, recently purchased. Maybe some proper integration with such as Revit?

edit/ PS - the Revit plug-in doesn't seem to work with Revit 64

[IES Technical Support]

After carefully working through all the things that could be wrong the 'Set Model Properties' command on the IES toolbar still keeps returning an error to the effect that there are no bounded spaces in the project, even though this is just a single room with walls, floorslab and roof, all set as room bounding etc.
I've also trawled the IES forums, the IES FAQ list etc.

Hi there,

It sounds like the problems you are having using Revit 2009 to export the model is that in MEP 2009 Spaces are required (where in MEP 2008 you had Room elements). You may need to define Spaces on the model, these can be placed by selecting the button on the Mechanical tab.

I believe Kyle has blogged about the change to use Spaces instead of Rooms and there are probably a few threads on this forum too that could give you a little more info on this.

That would be my first reaction when the "no bounded spaces" message is displayed but if you do already have spaces in the model then I apologise.

Should have added here also, IES will be releasing a version of the plugin compatible with 64-bit Revit soon (it is currently in the final stages of testing)

[ws]

Thanks for the reply.

You may well be right and I'll look back again at Kyle's blog.

I don't have Revit MEP, just Architecture.

[jeffh]

Hi there,

It sounds like the problems you are having using Revit 2009 to export the model is that in MEP 2009 Spaces are required (where in MEP 2008 you had Room elements). You may need to define Spaces on the model, these can be placed by selecting the button on the Mechanical tab.

I believe Kyle has blogged about the change to use Spaces instead of Rooms and there are probably a few threads on this forum too that could give you a little more info on this.

That would be my first reaction when the "no bounded spaces" message is displayed but if you do already have spaces in the model then I apologise.

Should have added here also, IES will be releasing a version of the plugin compatible with 64-bit Revit soon (it is currently in the final stages of testing)


Revit Architecture does not have space objects. if using Revit Architecture you still need to define room objects. The room objects in Revit Architecture will create spaces in a gbXML analitical model.

[ws]

thanks for the clarification Jeff.

I'll keep plugging away at trying to make it work - they say you learn more from having problems ;)

[jeffh]

If the file is small (under 10mb) you can e-mail it to me to take a look at. I can see if I can get it working. I just was at a 2 day training for GBS. Maybe I can put some of that knowledge to work.

jeffDOThansonATautodeskDOTcom

[ws]

Jeff,

that is very kind of you. :beer:

I'll email the very simple test file across and see what you make of it.

[IES Technical Support]

You're right there are no Spaces in Revit Architecture (I had guessed you may be using MEP 2009).

I'll wait for Jeff's comments on the test project but if you would like to email it to me (just use supportATiesveDOTcom) I could take a look at this as well and add any comments to this thread?

Phil

[jeffh]

I looked the file. It seems to be somethign related to the template file being used. I was able to cut and paste the geometry into a file started form a default template and it exported correctly. I aslo tried creating something from scratch using William's template and got the same error messages he was seeing. I even tried bringing in geometry I knew worked inot a project started from his template with no success.

I don't know enough about "how" the gbXML file is created to know what in the template is preventing it from exporting correctly. I suggested it be sent to support so development could take a closer look at the issue.

[IES Technical Support]

Thanks for the update Jeff.

If a solution is indeed found by Autodesk support can someone please share it on this thread for future reference.

Thanks,
Phil

[swalton240189]

I'm starting to look into which product from IES my company will buy. Looking through the white paper a couple questions came to mind. We are an Arch & Engineering firm and want to use some sort of energy analysis very early on and continue throughout the project.

1. It says plenum spaces should be created as seperate rooms. Does this mean the area above a dropped ceiling? It is my understanding that ceilings don't divide spaces when exported to gbXML. So I've been leaving the ceilings out of my test model. Will the analysis be better with ceilings and plenums taken into account? I imagine this reduces the conditioned space the VE toolkit or <VE> thinks there is.

If I do have a dropped ceiling and create a room for a plenum do I then have to create a ceiling level and a "ceiling" made out of the floor or roof tool?

2. When I create custom doors and windows what criteria does gbxml or IES's products use in determining what is glazing vs solid. Is it based on the transparency of the material or the subcategory?

[still.james]

i have the same problem as WS my template file keeps returning the same error :(

[ws]

That's reassuring... sort of ;)

Maybe it's a country-specific thing?

[kyle.bernhardt]

My guess here is the Phasing of your Rooms, and the Project Phase parameter in the Energy Data settings for your project.

Volume in Revit (Rooms or Spaces) are defined within a particular project Phase. There is a setting in the Revit project that defines the Phase that is used during gbXML Export (which is the basis for the IES plugin).

Settings -> Project Information -> Energy Data -> Project Phase.

Make sure the Phase corresponds to the Phase of your Volumes. If it doesn't you'll get the error that no Spaces are defined.

Cheers,
Kyle B

[ws]

Thanks Kyle, that's very useful to know and you are probably correct.

It is quite probable that I set off in Existing Phase to create some test rooms as I have my project browser by default set up with Existing Phase levels - but the Energy Data project phase is still the default of New Construction.

I will give it another go.

[gjnogales]

Such an important and timely topic seems to be lulled to sleep recently on the forum...

Is BPA working well? Are there any new "green papers" on it? Any links I am missing to year 2009 BPA discussions?

Of experienced users, is any of IES, Ecotect, and GBS a good tool in terms of interoperability with Revit and their "advertised" analysis capabilities?

Thanks in advance for your responses,

Gustavo Nogales

[gjnogales]

Oops I missed AUGI's Sustainability Design Forum outside the Revit section before writing the previous post ....link: http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=962