How do I make a decent looking Wall Section in Revit?

[happystan5678]

I'm new to Revit & AUGI, but I'm an architect who's been reading, studying, lurking for awhile and I've been doing 3D AutoCAD/Sketchup/Facade models for the past 18 years.

I asked my "Revit Evangelist" instructor these questions, but he said he didn't know off hand and told me to e-mail him and he'd answer me, which he never did, so now I'm here as a 2nd or 3rd resort. I've got 3 books on Revit Architecture (Autodestk Revit Arch 2009, Mastering Revit Architecture 2008 & Revit Architecture 2009 Fundamentals) and I have yet to see a decent looking Wall Section drawn in Revit.

When I make wall sections in Revit Architecture they look pretty primitive.

For instance the eaves are the same depth as the roof/ceiling in Revit.

Say for instance if I have a 24" deep Truss Joist filled with insulation, with a hard lid on the interior and an 8" outrigger at the Eave.(similar to the attached eave detail I did in AutoCAD)

Also, on a masonry building we always show a 2" brick ledge, where our brick veneer continues down 2" below the Finish Floor at the first floor, but the wall types always seem to stop at the 1st floor level and I can't get them to show a veneer that goes down below the first floor. (Similar to the attached footing detail I did in AutoCAD)

Is this just one of the limitations of Revit I have to work around or how do I illustrate that in section?

The other problem I'm having is with door openings.
When I draw a door I need to show the 2" frames on either side and on top of the door, since masonry units are important when doing a masonry building.

I found a routine that will add door frames, but the problem is that when I insert a 3'-0" x 7'-0" door it makes a 3'-0" x 7'-0" opening. If I want the opening to be 3'-4" x 7'-2" then it shows up on the door schedule as a 3'-4" x 7'-2" door. Anybody got a solution for that?

Thanks in advance,

Stan

[sbrown]

Have you done the detailing tutorials provided with revit. The model is used as a guide for detailing, you add detail component, filled regions, etc to finish of your wall section. As for the Brick ledge question, if you send me your email i will send you a class I taught on the subject. the pdf is too big to post here. But basically you just unlock the Brick and airspace layer of your wall from the wall structure box(turn preview to section), then using the modify tool select the bot. edge of the the brick layer and you'll see a lock, unlock it. Same for the air layer, then you will now beable to set an offset value for the brick ledge, then use Join Geometry to cut it out. This will work with stepped foundations too.

[Scott D Davis]

Say for instance if I have a 24" deep Truss Joist filled with insulation, with a hard lid on the interior and an 8" outrigger at the Eave.(similar to the attached eave detail I did in AutoCAD)

I would draw it as you have it detailed: in Revit, draw 2 roofs. The truss portion will stop at the wall as your detail shows. The second roof will be thinner in section and will be only your eaves. (You could also do this with 2 roofs where one sits on top of the other.) In any case, you will need to do some detailing in Revit, using drafting and detail components to finish out your section. Don't expect the model to do 100% of the detailing.


Also, on a masonry building we always show a 2" brick ledge, where our brick veneer continues down 2" below the Finish Floor at the first floor, but the wall types always seem to stop at the 1st floor level and I can't get them to show a veneer that goes down below the first floor. (Similar to the attached footing detail I did in AutoCAD)

Look into "Extending Layers" of walls. In the properties of the wall, you can edit the wall style and unlock a finish layer in the section preview. Once this layer is unlocked, it can be extended upwards or downwards to show the veneer extension.


The other problem I'm having is with door openings.
When I draw a door I need to show the 2" frames on either side and on top of the door, since masonry units are important when doing a masonry building.

You will need to create or edit a door family to add in the frame as you require.


I found a routine that will add door frames, but the problem is that when I insert a 3'-0" x 7'-0" door it makes a 3'-0" x 7'-0" opening. If I want the opening to be 3'-4" x 7'-2" then it shows up on the door schedule as a 3'-4" x 7'-2" door. Anybody got a solution for that?

The schedule can show the size of the door, or the schedule can show the name of the door. Your schedule needs to show the name of the door, and you need to name your door 3'-0" x 7'-0" even though its cutting a 3'-4" x 7'-2" hole.

[sbrown]

For the doors, you just need the proper type of hollow metal or alum. frame door type. You will need to learn how to make these but here is one to get you started.

[jeffh]

Understanding and using detail componets/detail lines is key to detailing in Revit. Using "model" objects in Revit for details like you are describing may be possible, but will be very time/resource consuming to accomplish. This is where detail components and detail lines come into play. Attached is a PDF of details (wall sections mostly) I did in Revit. They may not be the exact conditions you have described, but I think the sheet starts to illustrate the level of detail you are looking to get out of Revit is possible.

There are some sections in the tutorials on detailing in Revit. They can be downloaded here:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=11091739

Be sure to downalod the datasets (seperate download) as well to complete the tutorials.

For detailing in particular look at the following sections:
Express Workshops>Creating Details with Revit Architecture

Documenting Your Projects>Detailing

[patricks]

Here's my example of detailing in Revit.

[happystan5678]

Have you done the detailing tutorials provided with revit. The model is used as a guide for detailing, you add detail component, filled regions, etc to finish of your wall section.

Thanks for the quick reply and yes, I've done the detailing tutorials and I know how to add detail to my wall sections, I'm just curious about how to get my sections to look more realistic, like how I'd draw them manually, which is my goal with Revit.



As for the Brick ledge question, if you send me your email i will send you a class I taught on the subject. the pdf is too big to post here. But basically you just unlock the Brick and airspace layer of your wall from the wall structure box(turn preview to section), then using the modify tool select the bot. edge of the the brick layer and you'll see a lock, unlock it. Same for the air layer, then you will now beable to set an offset value for the brick ledge, then use Join Geometry to cut it out. This will work with stepped foundations too.

Thanks for the offer.

My e-mail addy is:

happystan5678@gmail.com

AUGI rocks! I've been trying to find answers to these question for awhile. I'll try these suggestions and see if I can make them work.

Thanks,

Stan

[twiceroadsfool]

The brief answer i would give, is come here often.

For help building content, help detailing, help with advice on how to do stuff. Tutorials are great, except you dont know what you dont know, and this place will help you find out. :)

[happystan5678]

Have you done the detailing tutorials provided with revit. The model is used as a guide for detailing, you add detail component, filled regions, etc to finish of your wall section. As for the Brick ledge question, if you send me your email i will send you a class I taught on the subject. the pdf is too big to post here. But basically you just unlock the Brick and airspace layer of your wall from the wall structure box(turn preview to section), then using the modify tool select the bot. edge of the the brick layer and you'll see a lock, unlock it. Same for the air layer, then you will now beable to set an offset value for the brick ledge, then use Join Geometry to cut it out. This will work with stepped foundations too.


For the doors, you just need the proper type of hollow metal or alum. frame door type. You will need to learn how to make these but here is one to get you started.

Hmm. I tried the door you attached (thanks again) but it has the same problem as the last one I tried before; a 3'x7' door cuts a 3'x7' rough opening, which means the door measures out as a 2'-8" x 6'-10" door, which doesn't really solve my problem.

So the question remains, "How do I get Revit to draw a 3' x 7' door, with a 2" door frame on each side and on top of the door so that the rough opening is 3'-4" x 7'-2"?"

Maybe this is a wish list question. I dunno.

Perhaps the Revit Arch programmers should consider this issue for us picky architects in the future releases separate out the HM door frames from the doors and when you go and draw a door with a HM door frame, first you cut the 3'-4" x 7'-2" rough opening for the door frame and then you hang a 3'-0" x 7'-0" door on the frame and that way the door will show up on the door schedule correctly and the rough opening is properly sized on the floor plan and in elevation.

[Scott Womack]

Hmm. I tried the attached, but it has the same problem as the last one I tried, a 3'-0" x 7'-0" door cuts a 3'-0"x7'-0" rough opening, which means it's actually a 2'-8" x 6'-10" door.

So the question remains, "How do I get Revit to draw a 3' x 7' door, with a 2" door frame on each side and on top of the door so that the rough opening is 3'-4" wide x 7'-2" tall?"

Maybe this is a wish list question.

Perhaps the Revit Arch programmers should in the future releases separate out the HM door frames from the doors and when you go and draw a door with a HM door frame, first you cut the 3'-4" x 7'-2" rough opening for the door frame and then you hang a 3'-0" x 7'-0" door on the frame and that way the door will show up on the door schedule correctly and the rough opening is properly sized on the floor plan and in elevation.

You have to in all likely hood make your own door families. Most firms do. I attached an example in the attached zip file.

[Mike Sealander]

The out of the box doors in Revit are quite simplistic. We, as I'm sure others, have created our own, or have gotten content from Revitcity.com.
I've attached two door families for you, single door and double door. You can set the frame thickness, and the rough opening (the opening cut) is larger than the frame size.
As I have found, it's a godsend to eavesdrop on Aaron and others on this forum.
Best of luck.

[sbrown]

Hmm, the doors I sent, if the leaf is 3'-0" and the Frame width set to 2" you end up with a 3'-4" opening, the head is also adjustable to be 2" or 4" for masonry, ie a 7'-4" opening for CMU.

[happystan5678]

Here's my example of detailing in Revit.

Nice. Someday I'll get there.

[patricks]

I created a hollow-metal door and frame family several years ago. Basically what I did was take the OOTB Revit door family, deleted those trim pieces, and then added new reference planes beyond the door leaf reference planes to denote the rough opening size. Then I edited the opening in the wall in the family to lock to those new reference planes. For the HM frame I created sweeps with a profile shaped like the HM door frame which also have an adjustable width. It works perfectly for doors in masonry openings. And although not totally correct, we just use the same door families in stud walls and dimension to centerline of door.

[RafeRedmond]

Spend some time in the family editor, get to know and understand how a family is created and what drives the dimensions and other parameters. It is possible for you to achieve various sized cutouts in your wall (In the family editor, you can draw an opening while in elevation view, and that will determine what the rough opening is in the wall. Then you still can have your door be the correct size.