Section Through Curving Object

[rdaniel]

Has anyone had this problem? I have a section cutting through a curving duct. The duct is clearly located inside the building in the plan (see attached 1st image), but shows outside of the building in the section (see attached 2nd image). My assumption is that Revit is showing the duct where it is being cut normal to the section line rather than where the section line is actually crossing it. If this is so, this is really lame. Can anyone out there confirm this or, even better, have a solution?

FYI, the duct is an in-place mechanical equipment family (sweep).

[jeffh]

Mechanical Equipment is a non-cuttable family type. it will always show in a projection view. Even if the family is being cut.

From the help file:

The following families are not cuttable and are always shown in projection in views:

Balusters
Detail Items
Electrical Equipment
Electrical Fixtures
Entourage
Furniture
Furniture Systems
Lighting Fixtures
Mechanical Equipment
Parking
Planting
Plumbing Fixtures
Specialty Equipment

[Dimitri Harvalias]

This is a function of the object category (mechanical equipment) not the curved object. If you go to the object categories you will notice that the mech equip category does not have a 'cut' representation i.e. it will not be cut by a section.
You can change the duct to a generic model and it should display properly. If you need more flexibility over the display you can add a sub-category to the generic model category.

[rdaniel]

Thanks much, guys.

[patricks]

They really need to make mechanical equipment "cuttable". What if you link in an MEP Revit file with ducts all over the place, and then cut a section through your building. Won't the MEP mechanical ducts show in projection, also? That could seriously screw up your section views, when one of the main advantages of a linked MEP file is that your sections should look MORE correct.

[sbrown]

I agree, thats the whole point of coordination, looking in building sections and seeing the ducts where you are cut thru.

[rdaniel]

I actually just finished my first project with the MEP engineer utilizing Revit. Hadn't noticed this issue as the building was completely orthogonal, and the section plane was always normal to the mech equip family. I have to question why they would not be cuttable? We show ductwork in our sections all the time, often for coordination purposes and even for dimensioning.

[Gadget Man]

To me the fact that Mechanical Equipment families are uncuttable means simply lack of understanding of architectural drawing needs from Revit developers. The Mechanical Equipment elements are an integral part of the building (they must be allowed for in an architectural design) and they absolutely should be shown in sections - hence they should be cuttable!

Another major blunder of Revit, which should be fixed pronto in lieu of developing, say, the new lame interface gimmics...

[dhurtubise]

Jeff is there a technical reason behind the fact taht some families are non-cuttable? Something like usage of resources...

[jeffh]

Jeff is there a technical reason behind the fact taht some families are non-cuttable? Something like usage of resources...


To be honest I do not know if there is a "technical" reason why some families are handled that way. This has been something in Revit since before Autodesk acquired Revit (and for sure before my time).

Development would have to chime in on this one. I am not really a "code" guy so once it gets beyond how the user experiences/uses the product and into the "guts" of how and why something works, my knowledge starts falling off pretty quick. :-)

[Andre Carvalho]

Jeff is there a technical reason behind the fact taht some families are non-cuttable? Something like usage of resources...

I think they tried to make things easier for us... Let's take the plumbing fixtures as an example: Plumbing fixtures are not cuttable and I think the reason behind that decision is to avoid sections or even a lower cut plan cutting let's say a WC or a sink. It wouldn't look nice in plans...:lol:

But I still think we should have control to cut or not the families.

Andre Carvalho

[patricks]

That would be a good idea - perhaps a checkbox under Family Category & Parameters, along with those other options like Work Plane-based, Always Vertical, etc. There could be another box that says Cuttable or something to that effect.

[Scott Womack]

That would be a good idea - perhaps a checkbox under Family Category & Parameters, along with those other options like Work Plane-based, Always Vertical, etc. There could be another box that says Cuttable or something to that effect.

I would agree. Specialty Equipment is such a broad category that some items in it would normally be "cut" in a section, or even in an interior elevation, such as toilet partitions. The games you have to go through to get around this is certainly not self-evident to those beginning Revit family work, and VERY time consuming to those of us who have figured out the better part of family creation.

Just for those who may not know, I took the OOTB toilet partitions, save to new name, changed catagory to Generic Models, nested back into Toilet Partition family, after erasing original geometry, hooked parameters back up to create a "cuttable" set of toilet partitions.

[patricks]

So is your partition family itself still Specialty Equipment, but the nested part inside a Generic Model? Does that cut correctly in section?

[Scott Womack]

So is your partition family itself still Specialty Equipment, but the nested part inside a Generic Model? Does that cut correctly in section?

Yes, and it schedules properly as well. FYI, I go tire of the tedium of laying out toilet rooms, so we nested a shared toilet, and shared toilet accessories families within it too. So placing the toilet stall, places the toilet, and asseccories all in one. Each schedules, correctly, and by tabbing you can tag the toilet accesssories as well.

I've attached an example of some of this.

[AJGKennedy]

Yes, and it schedules properly as well. FYI, I go tire of the tedium of laying out toilet rooms, so we nested a shared toilet, and shared toilet accessories families within it too. So placing the toilet stall, places the toilet, and asseccories all in one. Each schedules, correctly, and by tabbing you can tag the toilet accesssories as well.

I've attached an example of some of this.

Scott,

This comment about nesting your family and still being able to tag separately the elements within it interest me...

I have been using Keynotes heavily for most every type of note we can... but I noticed that in the case were we created a nested group of elements (family elements) when I have tried to tag the separate elements I only get the keynote for the whole of the combination of elements... I can't seem to be able to select the individual family items... I have tried tabbing... it does not seem to work... I could be miss using Keynotes... ha, ha... but they have been very useful... and so far this has been what we have use... still a newbie...

any idea... I know this isn't under the section through curving Objects... but this caught my eye to... Both issues...

On the Section through Curved Mech duct... I think the idea that family items should have a check box that gives the option weather or not it is cuttable or not would be better then forcing all those families listed not to allow cutting... (although I think that would be a big program code change) It would be much easier (for us)... then the work around... but nested families are always a good work around option...

[Scott Womack]

....can't seem to be able to select the individual family items... I have tried tabbing... it does not seem to work... I could be miss using Keynotes... ha, ha... but they have been very useful... and so far this has been what we have use... still a newbie...

any idea... I know this isn't under the section through curving Objects... but this caught my eye to... Both issues...

As to being able to tab through and tag the individual nested families,

1) the nested families must have the check box for the family being shared, clicked in each of the nested families.
2) These are Tags set to specific family categories, not a generalized tag such as the key noting tag.
3) We don't use the key Noting as Revit defines it, so I have not tried this at all.

[LRaiz]

To be honest I do not know if there is a "technical" reason why some families are handled that way. This has been something in Revit since before Autodesk acquired Revit (and for sure before my time).

Development would have to chime in on this one. I am not really a "code" guy so once it gets beyond how the user experiences/uses the product and into the "guts" of how and why something works, my knowledge starts falling off pretty quick. :-)
There was no technical reason for making some categories not cuttable. Originally we asked in-house architects and they provided their initial recommendations. Some of these choices possibly need to be modified. After all the choices had been made before Structural and MEP applications were developed. It sounds like in the customer feedback loop lost its efficiency and necessary adjustments have not been implemented.

By the way, having users make this decision for each individual family is not necessarily a good alternative either.

[AJGKennedy]

1) the nested families must have the check box for the family being shared, clicked in each of the nested families.


Why would you not want your family items to have the option to be shared? Should this be set typically... or is this a resource thing... use it only when you need it.

[aaronrumple]

By the way, having users make this decision for each individual family is not necessarily a good alternative either.

Is there a technical reason for that? I think user preference would come down to the cutable being either "By Category", "Cut" or Don't Cut" as options at the family level....

Specialty is the best example. Some of it I don't want to cut. For others it has to be cut. Right now our Generic model category is getting "busy" with things from other categories....

[aaronrumple]

Why would you not want your family items to have the option to be shared? Should this be set typically... or is this a resource thing... use it only when you need it.

Neither. Do you want the nested family to be shared among several families so they can all be updated at once? Do you want to schedule the nested items?

[mthurnauer]

I am a little confused as to why the ducts are not cuttable. On the last project I did, the MEP is a linked file and when I generate sections, it cuts through the ducts

[AJGKennedy]

Neither. Do you want the nested family to be shared among several families so they can all be updated at once? Do you want to schedule the nested items?

You know I haven’t thought about attempting to create the schedule we would normally create, with some of the items that we use nested blocks for. My main purpose was to add keynotes to family items that have been nested together… By sharing them I am able to add the Keynote for each item, which works great for that step… (Thanks Scott it Worked… it did work for Key noting as well :)) But the thought of scheduling is intriguing… The nested item I am using is a combination of sink, paper towel dispenser, soap dispenser… set in a typical configuration… Now we do have a schedule that we have provided in the past showing the list of these type of items within each room… and other items… and numbers required… I suppose the shared family is required for this scheduling as well… and this is possible within Revit… just another thing I should look at putting together for this job… before someone goes and hand does it like they usually do… ( ouch! )

Thanks… :)

[frederic.254523]

To be honest I do not know if there is a "technical" reason why some families are handled that way. This has been something in Revit since before Autodesk acquired Revit (and for sure before my time).

Development would have to chime in on this one. I am not really a "code" guy so once it gets beyond how the user experiences/uses the product and into the "guts" of how and why something works, my knowledge starts falling off pretty quick. :-)

Plumbing Families should also be cuttable. I just spend 1 hours figuring out that some family are and some not cuttable. It is essential to to a section through a tub or a sink without having to waste time redrawing a filled region over it and do linework. The software should be more suitable to basic Architectural drawings needs. Entirely agree also about the mechanical equipment. I made a tub in a generic model but what go does it make for me if it won't be in the Plumbing schedule? Can we place some generic models in a Plumbing schedule, if so how

[Scott Womack]

Nest your tub into a blank plumbing family. It should then "cut", and would be able to be scheduled in the plumbing schedule.

[frederic.254523]

Thank you Scott but no Revit does not cut Plumbing Fixtures, even if I start the family as a generic model or a blank plumbing family, as long as it is set as a plumbing fixture later (so it can be in the schedule) it will not cut. Back to stage one: Filled Region.

[Matt Stachoni]

So is your partition family itself still Specialty Equipment, but the nested part inside a Generic Model? Does that cut correctly in section?

Yep, and try explaining this apparent contradiction to people you are attempting to teach Revit MEP. Those quizzical looks are so cute!