Transparent Filled Regions For A Repeating Detail Component Line

[djackson.192657]

I've hit a big roadblock here guys. I've created some filled regions in a detail component line template, and brought it into my floorplan view so that I may draw it as a repeating detail over my walls. Unfortunatly when I go to the solid hatch filled region in the detail component family it will not let me change the setting to be transparent. This would allow me to see my walls under my repeating detail. I need this so that when I overlay my wall tapes for rated walls on a life safety plan (the solid filled region repeating detail), it will have transparency and I can still see the walls and doors on a color print. Please, any help will be of great assistance as I have exhausted all I know how to do. Thanks everyone.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

I'm not going to answer your question... but only to save you a lot of hassle and 'manual' drafting and coordination.:beer:
There are a number of ways to get Revit to do this automatically that don't require any additional drafting. In addition to being automatic they will be much lighter weight in terms of the performance impact on your file.
You can create filters to override the graphic display of your walls. You can use the coarse scale fill pattern for the different wall types. Just to name two.
The fact that you are willing to use color prints makes the job easier right from the start.
If you need additional advice on how to do this please post back and we'll be happy to get you going.

[djackson.192657]

Thank you for your prompt reply.This would be a valid option, however the wall would be split where the doors are located etc. Since we do hospitals and have to submit Life Safety plans to AHCA this cannot happen to the rated walls. It has to be an unbroken colored line. Plus I don't believe the fill pattern within the walls can extend past the boundary of the wall itself. Therefore if I wanted a very thick fill I would have to have a very thick wall if I'm not mistaken. These are some of the setbacks that have led me to believe that the repeating detail component line is my only option.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

You could work something with a detail component for each door to solve the fill at the door openings but by your description it sounds as if all the rating lines need to be the same width? So a solid fill the width of the wall is not acceptable? (Darn bureaucrats!!)

What about using detail lines locked to the walls and using the pick option when drawing? If you tab select the wall then the line will be on the wall centerline. The line thickness can be as wide as required and if the wall is picked to place the line it will cross over at the doors as well.

To answer your original question, I don't believe there is a way to create the solid filled region as transparent in the detail component. If you are happy with the line based family you can place it in a duplicate plan and then just overlay a duplicate plan in wireframe on the sheet and the filled region will be behind the wall lines.

[Scott Womack]

I've created some filled regions in a detail component line template, and brought it into my floorplan view so that I may draw it as a repeating detail over my walls. Unfortunatly when I go to the solid hatch filled region in the detail component family it will not let me change the setting to be transparent. This would allow me to see my walls under my repeating detail. I need this so that when I overlay my wall tapes for rated walls on a life safety plan (the solid filled region repeating detail), it will have transparency and I can still see the walls and doors on a color print.

You cannot directly use filled regions in a repeating detail. You will need to create a detail component family that has the transparent filled regions in them, and then you can use that family in the repeating detail. As to the transparency issue, no Revit will not permit transparency of the solid fill in a detail component. Don't know why. It appears you can't trick it into being transparent either.

[djackson.192657]

You could work something with a detail component for each door to solve the fill at the door openings but by your description it sounds as if all the rating lines need to be the same width? So a solid fill the width of the wall is not acceptable? (Darn bureaucrats!!)

What about using detail lines locked to the walls and using the pick option when drawing? If you tab select the wall then the line will be on the wall centerline. The line thickness can be as wide as required and if the wall is picked to place the line it will cross over at the doors as well.

To answer your original question, I don't believe there is a way to create the solid filled region as transparent in the detail component. If you are happy with the line based family you can place it in a duplicate plan and then just overlay a duplicate plan in wireframe on the sheet and the filled region will be behind the wall lines.

There are actually different widths I need depending on the rating, however most of them have to be wider than the wall because they simply dont read very well at 1/16". I have to show the entire complex on one 24x36 sheet.

The detail lines method is a plausable idea as well if I could truly have a line with a thickness variable. Is this possible? Right now all I have is the option to have dashes, dots and spaces in the editor. If I adjust the line weight to emulate anything near the thickness I need,(only goes to 16) it just looks like a big blobby mess.

A new discovery had been made as well regarding importing a repeating detail component line to my existing plan as an underlay as well...it can't be done...*sigh, this is truly becoming frustrating. When I try to draw a repeating detail component line in a blank template, then import it into the revit model, nothing shows up. It says in the link manager that it's there though. This issue is really giving the old Autocad birds here ammo. It's just a wide polyline and a transparency setting and your done for them.

[Scott Womack]

[quote=This issue is really giving the old Autocad birds here ammo. It's just a wide polyline and a transparency setting and your done for them.[/quote]

I can understand your pain. However, we went through and defined a hatch pattern that looks like a VERY fat linetype, and placed in it the core of the rated walls, set to follow the wall

[dfriesen]

I've been wrestling with this issue lately, specifically a -- / -- / -- line for a 1 1/2 hr rating. Ended up doing a repeating detail. Oh yes, this is shown on regular floor plans, not a separate safety plan, so we don't want it to fill the entire width of a 24" thick concrete wall, so the filter with over-ride isn't giving us what we want. Detail lines and repeating details are the best I've come up with.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

The detail lines method is a plausable idea as well if I could truly have a line with a thickness variable. Is this possible? Right now all I have is the option to have dashes, dots and spaces in the editor. If I adjust the line weight to emulate anything near the thickness I need,(only goes to 16) it just looks like a big blobby mess.
.

You would set your line thickness as part of the line style. Keep in mind that the thickness is defined in plotted units regardless of scale. If you need several thicknesses (I assume for each rating value) then you would just create a new line style for each thickness.

I wasn't suggesting you create the detail component in a separate file. Here are the steps I am suggesting

Duplicate your floor plan and name it Level 1 Fire Safety Plan
In the duplicate plan place your repeating detail 'lines'
Create a sheet view and place the Fire Safety Plan first
On the same sheet place your first floor plan with just walls, doors etc. and align it with the other plan view
Set this view to be wireframe and the filled regions should be overlayed on the walls and allow the wall to show through.After all this is done, I agree, being able to just add a line with a transparency, or better yet add a line to the wall definition, would probably be easier.

[djackson.192657]

I can understand your pain. However, we went through and defined a hatch pattern that looks like a VERY fat linetype, and placed in it the core of the rated walls, set to follow the wall

Sounds good Scott. Could you show me how you did that and upload the .pat file?




I've been wrestling with this issue lately, specifically a -- / -- / -- line for a 1 1/2 hr rating. Ended up doing a repeating detail. Oh yes, this is shown on regular floor plans, not a separate safety plan, so we don't want it to fill the entire width of a 24" thick concrete wall, so the filter with over-ride isn't giving us what we want. Detail lines and repeating details are the best I've come up with.

I like these ideas guys, thanks for the help and uploaded images. Could you upload that line/.rfa as well? Im still learning a lot about this program and disecting everyones options will help me see which option will work the best for different situations.




You would set your line thickness as part of the line style. Keep in mind that the thickness is defined in plotted units regardless of scale. If you need several thicknesses (I assume for each rating value) then you would just create a new line style for each thickness.

I wasn't suggesting you create the detail component in a separate file. Here are the steps I am suggesting

Duplicate your floor plan and name it Level 1 Fire Safety Plan
In the duplicate plan place your repeating detail 'lines'
Create a sheet view and place the Fire Safety Plan first
On the same sheet place your first floor plan with just walls, doors etc. and align it with the other plan view
Set this view to be wireframe and the filled regions should be overlayed on the walls and allow the wall to show through.After all this is done, I agree, being able to just add a line with a transparency, or better yet add a line to the wall definition, would probably be easier.

Thank you so much for your time and patients with my situation Dimitri. I followed your steps and this seems to be the best workaround to this point. It is unfortunate that something so seemingly simple has not been included yet in our latest release of this program. I would seriously suggest that a polyline like tool be incorporated into a future release to avoid this type of headache in the future. Even though this is a design tool at heart, it would help to have certain drafting type tools still available such as this.

You mention setting the line thickness as part of the line style. Would you mind elaborating on the steps to that as well. Is this where one goes to Settings / Line Styles or Settings / Line Weights to adjust these properties? When I pick a line pattern like triple dash and set it to the thickest weight, it just looks like a big blob. The spaces between the dashes dissappear.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Each line style is composed of a line pattern, color and line wieght.
To define a new line style you first need to create a line pattern. This is done form the Settings > Line Pattern menu. Click New and name the line pattern. If you have different patterns for different ratings (instead of just using color to differentiate them) then names them Rating 1 Hour, Rating 2 Hour etc. so they appear in the list of line types in order.
Next you need to define the actual pattern for the line. Patterns consist of lines, spaces and dots. Remember they are defined in terms of the final plotted lengths. This means if you specify a line of 6mm length it will print at 6mm long regardless of the view scale.
Once done defining the pattern you are ready to create your line style.
From the Settings > Line Styles menu. Select New and give the style a name. Assign a pattern, a color and a line weight. You now have a line style.

As for line weights, you can adjust those from Settings > Line Weights on the menus. Keep in mind that Revt can't create a really fat line that looks like a polyline in ACAD. The line ends are rounded and may result in your blob effect if the line width is too fat and the spaces too short. You'll need to experiment with different widths and spacings based on the scale of final view and the look you are trying to achieve.

Good luck with it.

[dfriesen]

I like these ideas guys, thanks for the help and uploaded images. Could you upload that line/.rfa as well?
Here's my 1 1/2 hr repeating detail. It still has some glitches - the way it's currently built doesn't work well for short segments, and the dash will vary depending on length, but it's all I've had time for at the moment.

It's made up of a detail component designed to look like a thick Revit line, complete with rounded ends. I tried making the line width adjustable, but haven't got it working quite right yet, so I just made it the width I needed for now.

Feels very un-Revit, but it'll do for the time being.

[Scott Womack]

Sounds good Scott. Could you show me how you did that and upload the .pat file?

I like these ideas guys, thanks for the help and uploaded images. Could you upload that line/.rfa as well? Im still learning a lot about this program and disecting everyones options will help me see which option will work the best for different situations.

I've attached a zip file with several of the patterns in it. (I can't take credit for the majority of what's in here. I got it from someone else in this forum)

I hope it helps. It was a harder sell to get management to come to grips with showing the ratings in all plans, not just a code plan. They were still rooted in CAD, and afraid the ratings wouldn't be coordinated across plans. Since they are in the material definitions, that is not possible, its either right in all places, or missed in all places. IT still does not think for you, but its definitely better.

[djackson.192657]

I was finally able to put some time into creating these line styles and see how they print on a large color printer. I have to say the rounded lines will take a little getting used to, however I think they will work. I adjusted the editor to make the dashes, dots and spaces appropriate for what Im doing. As for the line weight at 1/16" scale and a weight of 12 they seem to work. Once again I thank everyone for taking the time to help me. No doubt I will have many more questions and will keep coming back to inquire about more topics.