Revit or ADT with VisionREZ

[rick.74802]

Hello, this is my first time using this AUGI forum. I hope this is an ok place to place this thread. I've been doing 2D residential design for 13 years and I'm tired of drawing my elevations. I own ADT 2004 but just use it as plain autocad. I love autocad but I want to switch to what ever is the best system for us residential designers. I've been talking with the guys at VisionREZ and they are great people and the plug in seems like it will work well and it sounds like they have good ideas for future versions. I have one of my employees trying out the Revit demo and he thinks that it is pretty cool. From what I've read everyone seems to like Revit also.

My biggest issue is that I create floor framing plans, roof framing plans along with a typical set of construction documents. Of course I do it all with layers and in model space but it is just 2D. I want to continue creating my framing plans but of course in 3D so I can create quick and accurate building sections.

Right now I can create a very nice set of CDs for a typical 4000s.f. house from beginning to end in the 70 hour range if the client has a good idea of what they want in a design.

I love AutoCAD and that is what attracts me to VisionREZ because I can keep using AutoCAD with it but I'm not afraid to switch to Revit if it is truly the better way to go. I have already decided I do not have time to just learn ADT and customize it to work the way I want it. I'm just a two man shop and do around a 100 jobs per year so I need to stay productive for the most part.

Any input would be very much appreciated!

[SkiSouth]

You will solve more problems than you realize if you switch to Revit, but you will lose productivity for about a month (or longer depending on the intensity that you jump in). The problem is that you MUST change your thinking process as to how to draw a project. I've used ACAD since 1983, and the approach to a set is completely different in Revit. The problems you solve are " Is this project defined enough to build it". You can't easily "cheat" the drawings. Either the furr down is there or its not. The floor joists are there or they are not. I can draw a complete metal building with all structure elevations, reflected ceiling plans, floor plans, site, wall sections, schedules etc in less than 20 hours - any day any time with Revit. Now I didn't start there. Same with your houses. Revit has holes in its abilities to solve some problems. A key one in your house plans would be brick arches. If you use brick, a common practice in our area is to sometimes wrap an opening with a soldier or rowlock. If you have an arched head, Revit's a real pain, as you cannot use a radial array in a family. (Makes drawing brick arches a pain). BUT, if you do switch to Revit, you get an instant 3d feedback on what you've created. If you aren't aware, you can download a fully functional copy of Revit for 60 days from Adesk. Start there. Work the tutorials, Get the concept of drawing down with Revit before you switch, and I don't think I'd switch your machine and your assistant's. My opinion is the principal of the firm needs to understand what's fixing to happen, and you need to explore Revit, perhaps off hours while you continue to produce your documents in acad. After you work the tutorials, pick a plan you have defined and draw that set. You will have issues with a lot of things. Return here and ask. You will get an answer and a LOT of understanding. Plotting with the proper pen weights is another learning curve. There are additional tutorials you can find on Revitcity.com . Good luck and go for it!

[rick.74802]

Well I have been doing a lot of reading on these forums and after talking with Cyril Verley today for a 1/2 hour or so (thanks Cyril) I've been convinced. So I ordered the Revit series and get to keep ADT and even get an upgrade. I can't wait to be productive and also impress my clients with models.

I thought I would get more input from users on VisionREZ which looks like a great plug-in for ADT. But I guess even with that if you change an elevation it does not change the floor plan for you.

Wish me the best as I make the transition from 2D autocad to Revit!

[SkiSouth]

Congrats. Good choice.

[jay.80870]

Rick,

In regard to your previous post about VisionREZ, "But I guess even with that if you change an elevation it does not change the floor plan for you", this is not the case. A change in elevation will indeed be reflected on your floorplan. So yes it is possible to get these features from VisionREZ + the ADT platform.

[Les Therrien]

Rick,

I was in the exact same boat!
13 years, ADT for 2D design, approximately 100 or so house per year.

Yes, there will be a learning curve, but it will pay for itself. You will find that in some ways you may still spend 70 hours on a 4000 sq.ft. plan, but what you'll get for that time is not compareable.
Revit will allow you to explore design like never before. I was great in 2D and I was so fast, nobody could touch me. But with Revit you'll be able to do things that just weren't possible with Cad. Your time spent will be in improving design quality and content.

I just recently finished a large project for one of my builders (his own house). There is no way the results would have been the same on another software package!
This guy acts cool, and nothing fizzes him. However, everytime we're looking something over, he cannot help but that how F----ing amazing it it!!
You won't regret the purchase! I promise!

The good thing is, that even though there's a learning curve in learning the software, you will not have to re-learn it everytime there's a new release. This is covered in another recent thread.

[sjsl]

I lookedf into Visrez, got the demo and everything. It's just an add on, it's not worth the money imho over Revit. It's just a little smarter than plain cad and has quite a learning curve to boot and you really don't get anywhere with it. Stick with Revit, or try Chiefarch 10 if you really need framing plans in 3d.

[jay.80870]

Rick, our drafting team is creating full models / construction documents (typical 2,000 - 4,000 s.f + 3 elevations) in 30-40 hours with ADT and the VisionREZ enhancement.

I don't want to get into a debate on ADT vs. Revit just wanted to offer so alternative facts for you to consider. Both ADT and Revit are excellent programs and have strengths that will appeal to different needs. Of course neither one can resolve all issues but following is a list of our reasons for staying with the ADT platform:

1. Open API - allows for large scale development of 3rd party enhancements. Obviously Autodesk cannot supply every need for every market. Hence, the power of a programming interface that allows for "niche" need development.
2. Ability to leverage a large AutoCAD/ADT trained labor market.
3. Ease of communicating drawing files to other users / organizations. I would say over 99% of our customers / partners utilize AutoCAD/ADT. A platform shift would be detrimental at this time. (Maintaining the DWG file format)
4. Autodesk's commitment to ADT. Autodesk firmly voiced their commitment to continued develoment & funding for AutoCAD/ADT at the recent Autodesk One Team Conference, so it is not going away anytime soon.

This is coming from a residential application point of view with a primary emphasis on the development of fast and efficient construction documents + framing and bill of materials. The needs and results would obviously be different for commercial and or design / visualization only needs.

So nothing against either program. Just accurately evaluate your "core" needs and keep seeking the advice / opinions of those in your industry.

[Rhythmick]

I ordered the Revit series and get to keep ADT and even get an upgrade.

Looks like you got a can't lose deal! I was not able to keep ADT (at least not upgrade) with Revit series. The series only comes with Autocad - not ADT. Can't say I miss it though!
I don't do the amount of production you do, I design & build.
I would do your first Revit project with one that does not have a serious deadline or you may be forced to abandon it to complete it on time. The learning curve requires a lot of family library creation that once you have your first couple of projects done and have established your libraries you will be flying.
I have found the structural floor and roof systems to be a bit dissapointing and harder than it needs to be when it comes to modeling the framing (residential conventional wood framing). It appears that improvements are happening along those lines with each release. Just don't be expecting the framing plans to be real productive without a bit of struggling.
These forums are an excellant source of learning and are extreamly helpfull.

[Scott D Davis]

1. Open API - allows for large scale development of 3rd party enhancements. Obviously Autodesk cannot supply every need for every market. Hence, the power of a programming interface that allows for "niche" need development.
API development is now available for Revit, with the release of Revit Building 8.0.


2. Ability to leverage a large AutoCAD/ADT trained labor market.
I understand the large AutoCAD trained base. I'd have to question the large ADT trained base. While many have been 'trained' much of what they leraned in ADT was never/hardly used in production. With Revit, you can still take advantage of the AutoCAD trained base, as Revit reads and writes DWG.


3. Ease of communicating drawing files to other users / organizations. I would say over 99% of our customers / partners utilize AutoCAD/ADT. A platform shift would be detrimental at this time. (Maintaining the DWG file format)
Same situation, continue to use your customers/partners that utilize AutoCAD, as you can send them DWGs from Revit.


4. Autodesk's commitment to ADT. Autodesk firmly voiced their commitment to continued develoment & funding for AutoCAD/ADT at the recent Autodesk One Team Conference, so it is not going away anytime soon.
We have all been over this so many times....neither is going away, and both Revit and ADT will continue developement. But, as Revit Structures is released, it will mark the first time in the Autodesk/Revit history, that an ADT model wll interface with Revit....if you want to run structural analysis on your ADT model, you will import it into Revit Structure. (or use a third party program...) Skip the ADT part, and just model it in Revit in the first place.

[ppelegrin]

4. Autodesk's commitment to ADT. Autodesk firmly voiced their commitment to continued develoment & funding for AutoCAD/ADT at the recent Autodesk One Team Conference, so it is not going away anytime soon.


Naughty, Naughty. Boy I am going to be naughty:

I am sorry, Autodesk is not going to continue 'developing' both 'vertical' applications in the future. For now, absolutely agree - Autodesk has less to gain, more to lose by stating "ADT is dead and good luck" - However the writing is on the wall, sorry for being so politically insensitive. Autodesk is focussing Revit on their marketing efforts (to the non-ADT user, competitor, ACAD user etc).

A large group of Businesses in Australia are moving from AutoCAD, ADT and some ArchiCAD to Revit, there is no evidence of these same transitions occurring now for ADT. And Autodesk's 'financial' considerations are going to follow this lead. So my guess is that when that point of ADT business lowers to a certain level - no amount of kind memories is going to keep that thing alive. Although I am realistic enough to realise that this won't happen as quickly as some may wish...

Big business is littered with good and bad stories of buying competitors, merging product ranges, consolidating etc. To suggest Autodesk is immune to these same pressures is not very realistic. And it will take many brave people to suggest Revit might be discontinued.

Autodesk’s future (in this market space) depends on Revit’s future, its that simple. Too many, way too many ADT licences being utilised as AutoCAD (an abysmal ratio that Autodesk cannot deny). The Revit environment provides no ACAD fall back position - users are forced to use Revit in its entirety. Compare that with people that have ADT and not even using paperspace - how absurd is that!

Revit even now is being anticipated by clients as great platform for 'sharing' useful information beyond a flat, dull, lifeless DWG file. There are almost no projects in Australia where Architects using ADT are sharing intelligent 3D model data with consultants using ABS, or any other third party application - I say almost, I know of none myself and we are the biggest ADT reseller in Australia.

However I respect peoples need, desire, comfort level, financial capacity to continue with ADT, for now.

Regards,
P Pelegrin

[rookwood]

Did I just read on CADALYST that ADT is Autodesk's bigger money maker? If so, I doubt it will 'GO AWAY' anytime soon.

At any rate, I have been a custom home designer/builder for 25 years and haven't designed/built a home in 7 years smaller than 5,000 SF and less than $1.5M. I have been using AutoCAD for about 8 years and ADT for the last 5 and must confess I never had the time to learn and use ADT to it's full potential. I have had REVIT since version 5 and didn't even install it until later versions of 6 (again, just never had the time).

I came to realize a few months ago when I went after a serious contract that, regardless of how much time I spent with my clients in reviewing the drawings and educating them, that people are graphic and for the most part 'JUST DON'T GET IT'.

So, 4 months ago I installed REVIT, upgraded to REVIT SERIES and SUBSCRIPTION, and began to read all the books and tutorials I could get my hands on. All I can say is that I cringe at the thought of ever having to go back to ADT. I am embarrassed that I waited so long and was stunned at the relative ease in learning the basics of this software. Certainly one thing I believe that helped my immensely was the fact that, for the most part, REVIT will not let you draw something that can't be built. As a builder, I understood what it was saying. For a long time I have often said that every builder should work for an architect for a year and every architect should work for a builder for a year.

In REVIT, I can immediately see when a wall protrudes thru the roof, where foundation drops should be placed, and so on. Also, I've learned to do quick 'THUMBNAIL' walk throughs where I can see, perhaps, that a particular design element didn't work as planned, or some other 'mistake' on my part.

I am surprised at what I have learned in just 4 months and excited about what I will learn in the next 4. I will view the demise of 2D CAD programs as I did the demise of ZIPATONE, PRESSTYPE and INDIA INK (my apologies to the youngsters who never heard of these). My lack of decison to change was long but the regrets were never.