How do you nest a title block family?

[cadman6735]

Hey guys, I am new to this site so I hope that I am not repeating a question but I probably am. So here goes...

How do I create a nested Title Block family? I have multiple sizes and styles of title borders and I would like to be able to have one family called Borders that I can load into my project and select the correct title border from inside the project itself.

I was able to cheat by copy and paste my different size borders into the one family and control them by yes/no parameters but this is not my ideal way. All my generic annotations I can use the Family/Type parameter to control my annotation symbols with a pull down selecton but this option does not work with Title Block Family catagory. I don't get the label parameter to display under element properties when I select the border to be able to assign it to my Family/Type parameter.

What am I missing?

Thanks for any help here

[Scott Womack]

Hey guys, I am new to this site so I hope that I am not repeating a question but I probably am. So here goes...

How do I create a nested Title Block family? I have multiple sizes and styles of title borders and I would like to be able to have one family called Borders that I can load into my project and select the correct title border from inside the project itself.

I was able to cheat by copy and paste my different size borders into the one family and control them by yes/no parameters but this is not my ideal way. All my generic annotations I can use the Family/Type parameter to control my annotation symbols with a pull down selecton but this option does not work with Title Block Family catagory. I don't get the label parameter to display under element properties when I select the border to be able to assign it to my Family/Type parameter.

What am I missing?

Thanks for any help here

Labels cannot be assigned a sub-category, so they will not appear under element properties.

Everyone that I know of simply has multiple titleblock families, since that is the cleanest way for this type of object in Revit.

[cadman6735]

wow, that was fast reply, thanks

So I am assuming that the Title Block is a different type of annotation and creating a title block family with different title block types inside that family is not possible?

I find this disapointing...

Thanks for the fast reply

[aaronrumple]

wow, that was fast reply, thanks

So I am assuming that the Title Block is a different type of annotation and creating a title block family with different title block types inside that family is not possible?

I find this disapointing...

Thanks for the fast reply

Doing different styles within one family is quite easily done using visibility parameters....

Doing multiple sizes within one family can be done but isn't advisable. It is just too difficult to manage.

[cadman6735]

I created my title block family using the New>Families>Title Blocks
Then I just picked a generic size. I created the largest one first then grouped it. Then I created my next size then grouped it and then so on till I was done. I then used a visibility parameter to control each group in my project file. This works fine but not what I want.

It should not matter the size or the shape of the family that has been loaded into a family for nesting. I have created many generic annotations of many different shapes and sized and they all work fine using the family/type parameter.

What I am asking is: The family/type parameter does not work for title border nested families. Because when you nest a generic annotation family and then you select the annotation and then go to element properties there is, under other, a parameter that says "Label" and next label it says "none", you can hit the down arrow that will allow you to select the paramter name that you assigned to that family/type parameter allowing you to control which family will show in the project file.

This "Label" that controls which family will show in the project file does not appear in a Title Border family. So I am unable to toggle between title borders.

"Fwweeww" that was a mouthfull ...

I just think there should be a way to control title borders the same way as you do any other nested family in Revit. and if it wasn't for the revision schedule I would have worked around it already.

Thanks for you time in reading and trying to help...

[Scott Womack]

It should not matter the size or the shape of the family that has been loaded into a family for nesting. I have created many generic annotations of many different shapes and sized and they all work fine using the family/type parameter.

This "Label" that controls which family will show in the project file does not appear in a Title Border family. So I am unable to toggle between title borders.

I just think there should be a way to control title borders the same way as you do any other nested family in Revit. and if it wasn't for the revision schedule I would have worked around it already.

I can understand your frustration with wondering why some families act differently than they apparently should. Titleblock families are NOT like other annotation families, and actually have significant functionality that other annotation families do not. Making Titleblock families behave just like any other annotation family, would actually loose functionality, with out really gain much.

[aaronrumple]

I created my title block family using the New>Families>Title Blocks
Then I just picked a generic size. I created the largest one first then grouped it. Then I created my next size then grouped it and then so on till I was done. I then used a visibility parameter to control each group in my project file. This works fine but not what I want.

It should not matter the size or the shape of the family that has been loaded into a family for nesting. I have created many generic annotations of many different shapes and sized and they all work fine using the family/type parameter.

What I am asking is: The family/type parameter does not work for title border nested families. Because when you nest a generic annotation family and then you select the annotation and then go to element properties there is, under other, a parameter that says "Label" and next label it says "none", you can hit the down arrow that will allow you to select the paramter name that you assigned to that family/type parameter allowing you to control which family will show in the project file.

This "Label" that controls which family will show in the project file does not appear in a Title Border family. So I am unable to toggle between title borders.

"Fwweeww" that was a mouthfull ...

I just think there should be a way to control title borders the same way as you do any other nested family in Revit. and if it wasn't for the revision schedule I would have worked around it already.

Thanks for you time in reading and trying to help...

Whew, indeed. Why make it so hard?
Having separate titleblock families is actually less work in the long run than building in so much complexity.

[cadman6735]

Can't help it guys, I make everything harder than it should be... And it is because of my lack of understanding. I can accept that the Title Block family is different, though still disapointed...

Other than the revision schedule, can you tell me what is so different about a title border family? Everything I have experianced so far is the same with the exception of the Revision Schedule. You said it was more advanced in someway... in what way?

One of the things I am trying to accomplish here is we use around 15 title borders depending upon our client and each border has at least 8 different sizes. Then I have 150+ Architects and Engineers. I support Revit Arch, Stru & MEP. I have different templates set up depending upon client, and disapline (including Interior department) They all have different needs and all have different skill level with Revit. I am trying to load the seals family into the title border family and the seals have parameters too. Seal on or off, Seal signature On or Off and Seal date On or Off. If I can't Nest the Title Borders into one family then I have to load all the seals into each border sheet and then set the parameters for each seal so I am talking about 15 title border times 8 different sheet sizes times about 50 or so seals. Then I have to keep up with all that. Can you see my headache here. If I could just do it once in one place. As new poeple start and others leave, that is a lot of work just for seals. (for example)...

Guys, thank you for reading and replying to my posts. If nothing else I get to vent and learn as I go.

Thanks again

[aaronrumple]

Sounds like the seal is what is driving things up. (6000 titleblock versions! This can't help but get screwed up.)

You might consider doing the seal thing later. Make the titleblocks without seals. Now you're down to a managable number of titleblocks.

When it comes time to seal the set - the users would just edit the titleblock. Add the seal and reload. Done. this allows you to use a different seal per job with the same basic titleblock.

If you want to remove the seal. Again just edit the titleblock and delete the seal. Reload. Done.

Be sure to make your titleblocks on the server read only so no one saves the titleblock updates back to the server. We use the same process for adding client and consultant logos. If you do that you're down to only 8 sizes.

[cadman6735]

Your right,

I was trying to avoid having them load the seal into the border family and then load each parameter for that seal so that the seal parameter can be recognized in the project file.

Automate the process a little more...

ok, moving on


Thanks

[Scott Womack]

Other than the revision schedule, can you tell me what is so different about a title border family? Everything I have experianced so far is the same with the exception of the Revision Schedule. You said it was more advanced in someway... in what way?

You can put Text in a Title Block and it will appear in the Project. Not all annotation allow this, tags for example. A title block in 2009 included the ability to show a revision, without a cloud. A Titleblock has a built-in parameter to not show in a drawing list, which is a very specific type of schedule. Titleblocks are being watched by the system for plotting, importing, etc. since they can be "grouped" together. They have the built-in parameters for Project information items, sheet numbering etc.

[ededios]

I have 2 types of titleblocks, one for Design one for Production. The Production one, (for construction documents) was created for me and what was done is two sizes, using formulas to make sure specific areas stay the same size, and other areas can shrink.
It works fine, of course our set up made it possible. I want to keep it to a minimum number of titleblocks so I don't have to manage too many.