Store front in schedules

[Carlos GT]

I am working on a commercial project where I am using storefront doors of different sizes; and I want to create a schedule, but I realized that I can't drag the type "storefront" to my schedule view (like a door or window).

Is there any way to accomplish this?

[cliff collins]

1. Make sure the Curtain Panel (door in the storefront) has a Mark specified in Properties.
(Select the curtain panel/door by hitting tab key while hovering over the storefront.)

2. Once the Mark is specified, place a Door Tag--which should show the Mark--i.e. 100, etc.
3. Generate a new door schedule View>New>Schedule>Doors
4. The storefront door should show in the schedule.
5. Generate a new Legend View called Door Type Elevations.
6. Add a Legen Component to the Legend--select "section" for view type, witha length
of 8-10' (soo door will show full height in elevation view.
7. Be careful to control the exact width and height of the storefront door(s) by adjusting
the curtain grids in the storefront.

Cheers.......

[Carlos GT]

What do you mean when you say "add a legend component to the legend"?

[Carlos GT]

I figured it out. But in this way only I am able to show the doors, what if I want to show the whole storefront with the 6 glass panels? Am I asking too much?

[twiceroadsfool]

Model Group your storefront assembly. Make 2 Phases that happens before Existing in your project. Place the model group there on the first of the two phases, and make an elevation of the Storefront Model Group. Demolish the Storefront in the second Phase, so it doesnt affect your model.

Place the elevation on the sheet and call it a day.

[cliff collins]

Or--just zoom in on the elevation--crop it as needed-and place that elevation of the sheet....
Am I missing something? Why the need for a legend view?

cheers.....

[patricks]

I show my storefront doors in my door type elevation legend by just using a regular full glass door type that looks the same.

If the whole storefront assembly is simple enough or there aren't that many types, then I would probably just draw the assembly as lines in my frame type elevation legend. Otherwise I would probably use the separate phase method, as you can place all of your storefront types side-by-side in a wall, and then make an elevation view of it. Otherwise you would have to make tons of individual elevation views, one for each storefront type, if they all did not occur side-by-side in your building.

[twiceroadsfool]

Or--just zoom in on the elevation--crop it as needed-and place that elevation of the sheet....
Am I missing something? Why the need for a legend view?

cheers.....

Because 65 different types of storefronts means a LOT of elevations and markers to chase around...

[cliff collins]

Yes--a large number of elevations will be required, if the design calls for it.

So, it sounds like we then have a Wishlist Item:

"Legend Views for Curtainwalls".

I'll see if this has already been submitted, if not I'll submit it.

cheers....

[patricks]

I don't see how that could work anyway, since curtain walls do not have separate types for the layout of the wall. You draw it just like a wall, specifying the height and length you want. How would a legend "see" how you have arranged all the mullions, panels, etc.?

Even if you grouped various curtain walls and storefronts together so you can place them repeatedly, there are no definite "front", "back", "top", etc. views as there are in an actual family.

If you have lots of different storefront frame configurations, I think the separate phase idea and elevation is the best solution. That way you can place all your different type groups into a wall, create an elevation, and then turn off the wall in elevation. Boom - you have your curtain wall types, and you can even use section marks to define detail locations (which you can't do in legends right now).

[twiceroadsfool]

I completely agree Patrick. The one thing i WOULD like, is the ability to Tag (and add mark and type mark values) and add information parameters to Model Groups. THAT would make it much more intelligent.

Especially since a lot of offices like to place a tag (similar to a door tag, but with a type) on storefront configurations in plan. Currently, there are a few somewhat decent ways to do it, but none of them are fully intelligent.

We model group all of our storefronts, so i just add a piece of text in a detail group to the model group, in plan, and make sure it says the correct type of *Storefront system*.

Ive seen people actually try to use a different CW type, and wall tag it, but thats not fully intelligent either since you can use the wrong CW type in all of the model groups, so i dont bother with it.

But, as patrick said, the phase thing works wonderfully if you model group your storefronts. I dont even bother with a wall, i just place the groups and elevate them...

[cliff collins]

OK--

Here we are again, with "power users" coming up with creative ideas to
solve problems. I commend the "power users" for their efforts--and it never ceases
to amaze me at how many good ideas have come from these situations. To be certain,I have used, for many years, the "phase" trick for storefront elevations, etc. But it is a band-aid solution!

That said--the root of the problem comes down to the programmers at the Factory.

How could Revit make a Legend View of a "custom" / user-created curtainwall?
I do not know, or care to know, how C++ language is used to come up with a good Revit tool--that is programmers' expertise.

But--let's say, for example--that once I have created a Curtainwall/storefront, that Revit can take a "snapshot" 2D elevation of it--a Legend View. Make a change to it, hit a "refresh" button, and the Legend view updates ( I know that sounds very ADT like--
but I'm suggesting a tool other than normal Elevations here, which do change automatically.) Or--maybe it automatically updates, once a change is made? I personally prefer to use the "correct" elevation method for storefronts.

My point is--instead of always having to come up with creative "workarounds"--which usually are overly complex, difficult to understand, and counter-intuitive, we should have simple out-of the box tools for everyday tasks--like Legend Views for curtainwalls!

Cheers....

[patricks]

But, as patrick said, the phase thing works wonderfully if you model group your storefronts. I dont even bother with a wall, i just place the groups and elevate them...

oops duhhh a curtain wall IS a wall, no host wall needed. :Oops:


OK--

Here we are again, with "power users" coming up with creative ideas to
solve problems. I commend the "power users" for their efforts--and it never ceases
to amaze me at how many good ideas have come from these situations. To be certain,I have used, for many years, the "phase" trick for storefront elevations, etc. But it is a band-aid solution!

That said--the root of the problem comes down to the programmers at the Factory.

How could Revit make a Legend View of a "custom" / user-created curtainwall?
I do not know, or care to know, how C++ language is used to come up with a good Revit tool--that is programmers' expertise.

But--let's say, for example--that once I have created a Curtainwall/storefront, that Revit can take a "snapshot" 2D elevation of it--a Legend View. Make a change to it, hit a "refresh" button, and the Legend view updates ( I know that sounds very ADT like--
but I'm suggesting a tool other than normal Elevations here, which do change automatically.) Or--maybe it automatically updates, once a change is made? I personally prefer to use the "correct" elevation method for storefronts.

My point is--instead of always having to come up with creative "workarounds"--which usually are overly complex, difficult to understand, and counter-intuitive, we should have simple out-of the box tools for everyday tasks--like Legend Views for curtainwalls!

Cheers....

Well yes, that would be a nice feature to have. But I'm just saying that I don't see how Revit would "know" from which direction/angle/side to take the "snapshot" from. Maybe there would be some way to tell it to look at the storefront wall from the exterior side, centered on the length, a certain distance away.

But then invariably, there would be certain users who would complain that they need the view to be from the other side, or from a different distance away, whatever. Then there would have to be options built into this function to make everyone happy, and that would make the program that much more complicated to use IMHO.

[twiceroadsfool]

Ive said it before: The perfect solution is for Legends to be turned IN to the phase trick.

We need a modeling environment called "Legend" that works and functions JUST like the actual model, but ISNT in the actual model. Draw walls, tag walls, place groupds and families, cut sections, dimension things, text note, material tag, etc... But not show up in the model or in schedules.

That would alleviate the need for the conversation.

But a specific tool for elevating CW's, i dont see it functioning in a way that would get anyone to use it. As Patrick said, too many different workflows and quirks about storefronts.

[Scott Womack]

Yes--a large number of elevations will be required, if the design calls for it.

So, it sounds like we then have a Wishlist Item:

"Legend Views for Curtainwalls".

I'll see if this has already been submitted, if not I'll submit it.

cheers....

Cliff,

This is probably a lot larger issue that you realize. Storefront/curtainwalls are typically created using instance parameters, as in adjustable width, spacing of mullions, etc.

Instance parameters are not available in Legends for ANY catagory of object. It "uses" the default settings of these items in a family when it is first loaded into the project. That is why Ceilings cannot be seen in plan view, and Walls (of which curtainwalls are technically a subset) cannot be seen in elevation in a legend. So to be able to see curtainwalls in an elevation, this entire instance parameter thing would need to be "reprogrammed" or in our words "Fixed".

[cliff collins]

Scott,

Agreed. I know that Legend Views for "custom" / user defined items
would be difficult/impossible--with the current way the software works.

I'm always pushing the envelope to find new ways to accomplish simple things--
we would all LOVE Legend Views if they worked how we wanted them to.

Cheers....

[Scott Womack]

I'm always pushing the envelope to find new ways to accomplish simple things--
we would all LOVE Legend Views if they worked how we wanted them to.

Cheers....

Agreed. We handle Curtainwall/storefront in the following way. We created a shared parameter that gets applied to all walls/curtainwalls/storefronts. We then created a custom wall tag, set to read this parameter. We then in a separate overall plan, say at 1/2" = a foot, create the elevations for each storefront piece, setting it not to show in a plan scale less than 1/2" = 1'-0". Doing it this way avoids fighting the elevation marks in all of the other plans.

We create a view template, that turns off doors, and other items (not walls). In the individual elevations we select the adjacent walls and manually tell them not to show surface patterns.

In Plan we tag them by catagory, and then select the tags, and change their type to the storefront tags. Number the storefront sections, and name the elevations by the tagged numbers. We create a separate sheet(s) for the storefront elevations, and place the elevations on those sheets. We can now tag the curtainwall panels for glass types, place detail references to the correct details, etc. Not the greatest, but it works, and is understandable for the majority of our users.