Revit 2009 on healthcare project

[pfaudler]

We are engaged in a reasonably big healthcare project (about 25000 sq m). We did our previous and first healthcare project in Revit 2008. But i believe things may have improved with new version and latest build so i would just like to get some advice on how to approach this project in BIM environment.
Below is a brief about BIM/CAD setup

2 Arch. practices (different geo. locations): Revit 2009 + Acad
Structure (diff. geo. location): Revit 2009 + PDS
M&E (diff. geo. location): Acad + CAD duct + Navisworks
Contractor: Acad + Navisworks for clash detection and collaboration

Below i outline my proposal for approach. Please comment on this.

The project would have detached buildings so i am inclined to treat them a seperate revit projects. Structure would develope their revit models and then we can copy/monitor each others. But we will have to export our models as 3D ACIS solids so that M&E can develop their models in ACAD+CADDUCT based on our revit exported 3D models. they will then issue their models as 3D dwg and NWD which we can import in Revit for clash detection.

I would like to get some idea on what others are doing fo:
1:50 room loaded drgs, C-sheets etc.
1:50/1:100 Fire strategy drgs.

Currently we are doing room loaded drgs and C-sheets in Codebook and ADB, in autocad. So we will export plans from Revit and load rooms with ADB or Codebook. We can then take those room loaded drgs in Revit as an import to check things and remove link.

Client is keen to explore populating rooms with 3D furniture ans generate drgs and C-sheets form it. I need advice on this issue please.

Overall, can you please comment on the workflow and suggest any better methods and give any advice on handling this project in this multi discipline environment.

Thanks in anticipation of your help.

Regards

[hermeytheelf]

I work for a very large international firm that is one of the leaders in healthcare. We are implementing Revit across the company and have been using it on some rather large HC projects with mixed results. The biggest problems for us have been a lack of Revit families that are specific to HC. Users have been creating a lot of in place families, drawing model lines, and IMPORTING AutoCAD. Our main focus is trying to get some streamlined families developed that are not to heavy in 3D (keep any solid visible only in 3D if at all possible. I have a pretty generic Specialty Equipment family that drives multiple types of med equip through a type catalog. It represents as a box - extrusion in 3D only, symbolic lines in plan/section/elevation, plan graphic toggle to show undercounter (instance based), Material parameter to assign unique material by type for 3D studies, object style subcategories created that are specific to views i.e. meq-3d, meq-plan,meq-plan undercounter,meq elevation etc.

Working with linked models across the WAN we recommend the use of Detached copies, exchanged at a regular interval. Typical separtion is obviously an Arch model and a Strut model. The respective disciplines are linking in Detached copies of eachotthers model. If at all possible, use the floor slabs from the S model in the A model, Copy monitor the Grids and levels in most cases. I have suggested that shear walls in the S model are copy/monitored in the A model but have yet to see that happen.

Tags, we have two different familes, one is specifically for coarse scale overall plans. Text is 1/16" (Sorry I am Imperial :-)

Code Plans. We are using a version of a Steve Stafford tool (find the thread here on AUGI) that is a two pick family to calculate exiting distances. We also have created shared parameters for Occupancy loading and use a schedule with calculated values to do the math. This was developed before I came on board so I am not super familiar with it but that the 30K' view.

[Comach]

We are engaged in a reasonably big healthcare project (about 25000 sq m). We did our previous and first healthcare project in Revit 2008. But i believe things may have improved with new version and latest build so i would just like to get some advice on how to approach this project in BIM environment.
Below is a brief about BIM/CAD setup

2 Arch. practices (different geo. locations): Revit 2009 + Acad
Structure (diff. geo. location): Revit 2009 + PDS
M&E (diff. geo. location): Acad + CAD duct + Navisworks
Contractor: Acad + Navisworks for clash detection and collaboration....Overall, can you please comment on the workflow and suggest any better methods and give any advice on handling this project in this multi discipline environment.


I hope you don't mind if I comment on your work-flow:

For building services your team are using CadDuct, which is actually a very good product (excellent choice) and gives you options for direct integration to the fabrication process thereby potentially saving you man-hours on 2d drawing production to convey design intent. One added advantage of CaDuct is that it is fully compatible with Autocad Architecture, in fact it can be run within ACA. This option would give you good interoperability options for building services and Architecture.

Your structural options based on Revit 2009 and PDS; I assume frameworks; will probably require some admin time to account for model exchange - there are some very good Structural packages (like Prosteel) that would improve on the issue of interoperability giving you some leverage to achieve better data exchange. Consider work-share options with steel fabricators with 3d data exchange either bi-directional with same design package or conversions to Fabtrol or SDNF input/output formats. Work share with steel fabricators with 3d data exchange would again help to reduce dependence on 2d drawings and unnecessary duplication of data.

You haven't mentioned Process Piping, which I presume you may do with CadDuct - although there are some limitations as this is not the strength of the package - it may be worth considering Autocad MEP to again address potential issues with interoperability - or maybe even Autoplant which gives you good integration with Isogen for isos and piping spool lists/material data - straight feed into fabrication. This would also be a better solution for cable raceways and coordination with P&IDs.

By reducing the need for time consuming 3d model conversions in order to be able to share 3d data and minimising 2d drawing production will produce efficiencies in work-flow, design development and minimise frustrations, plus it would provide the client with a more comparable design model for facility management!

It is quite a large project and for site infrastructure and land development perhaps Civil 3d might be a good option - also some GIS (Map 3d integrated within Civils 3d) input for existing services and boundary data conditions for authority regulatory requirements - this data is also a good exchange platform if you were going down the route of Autocad Architecture. This would also be good for developing a project coordinate system with building grids and site grids properly aligned with survey real world data.

Your site layout proposal would benefit from your suggestion of separate building structures - a perfect opportunity for devising a modular work-flow approach.

Just my 2c.

[pfaudler]

Thanks very much my friends for your invaluable input.
This does help me to plan strategy for this project.

So you are suggesting room loading with equipment should be done in revit in 3D?
Am i right? So far we have been doing this in Codebook and ADB softwares. This is first time we are thinking to generate room loaded drgs, plans+elevations @ 1:50 in revit. also room data sheets for equipments. Do you think Revit 32 bit on windows xp 32 bit will cope with room loading with equipments and generating all that room data sheets etc.?

Thanks very much again for sharing your experience.

Regards

[dhurtubise]

Do you think Revit 32 bit on windows xp 32 bit will cope with room loading with equipments and generating all that room data sheets etc.?
Regards

It will as long as you manage the model integrity well. Of course if you can get x64 it will give you a bigger margin of errors.
If you are coordinating with several technologies(software) definitely look into NavisWork. You will most likely need it anyways.
That's what i specialize in, large project. So yes they can be done but it adds another level of management but the benefits are tremendous.

[jrchellappa]

I work for a very large international firm that is one of the leaders in healthcare. We are implementing Revit across the company and have been using it on some rather large HC projects with mixed results. The biggest problems for us have been a lack of Revit families that are specific to HC. Users have been creating a lot of in place families, drawing model lines, and IMPORTING AutoCAD. Our main focus is trying to get some streamlined families developed that are not to heavy in 3D (keep any solid visible only in 3D if at all possible. I have a pretty generic Specialty Equipment family that drives multiple types of med equip through a type catalog. It represents as a box - extrusion in 3D only, symbolic lines in plan/section/elevation, plan graphic toggle to show undercounter (instance based), Material parameter to assign unique material by type for 3D studies, object style subcategories created that are specific to views i.e. meq-3d, meq-plan,meq-plan undercounter,meq elevation etc.

Working with linked models across the WAN we recommend the use of Detached copies, exchanged at a regular interval. Typical separtion is obviously an Arch model and a Strut model. The respective disciplines are linking in Detached copies of eachotthers model. If at all possible, use the floor slabs from the S model in the A model, Copy monitor the Grids and levels in most cases. I have suggested that shear walls in the S model are copy/monitored in the A model but have yet to see that happen.

Tags, we have two different familes, one is specifically for coarse scale overall plans. Text is 1/16" (Sorry I am Imperial :-)

Code Plans. We are using a version of a Steve Stafford tool (find the thread here on AUGI) that is a two pick family to calculate exiting distances. We also have created shared parameters for Occupancy loading and use a schedule with calculated values to do the math. This was developed before I came on board so I am not super familiar with it but that the 30K' view.

hermeytheelf,
I saw your posting and am curious to learn more about the HC families that are being developed. I'm a student working on research in relationship to BIM prototyping in HC. This is my first post to a forum, so I'm crossing my fingers that I respond correctly using this web resource. If you could further explain the difference between "users creating in place families," versus "creating streamed-lined families in not-too-heavy 3D" I am searching for some enlightenment.

much appreciated
j