Masonry Coursing on a sloped curved wall

[bsqwared]

I am building a sloped curved mass, and applying a masonry wall by face. The issue i would like to resolve is that the coursing is completely whacked. The mass consistes of several swept blends that are joined, and the surfaces look smooth on the mass. When i apply my wall by face, it applies the coursing to each individual mass surface, not the joined overall surface. This would be okay if i can get the coursing to line up, but the coursing goes haywire because of the curves. Any ideas?

[cliff collins]

Perhaps this is telling you that small pieces of masonry and mortar joints may not
be the best material to use on a curving complex form such as this one? Part of a good design decision process is to think about the form and materials as one--use a material that can be best used to produce the form you want. i.e. concrete may be a better and more fluid material for this kind of geometry..........

That said, there probably IS a way to get Revit to get things lined up-- but my point is if we have a lot of trouble modeling it, then the builder will have 500 times more problems actually constructing it, which will cost lots of money, time, frustration, and perhaps even
a poorly constructed building which can even lead to litigation. ( like some of Frank Gehry's work.)

Just my 2 cents worth.

cheers......

[bsqwared]

While I appreciate your view on design theory, i still need to know how to course the wall so that it looks appropriate. The decision on the form of the wall and the material are out of my hands, and somehow i don't think any designer will feel good about being told "It can't be rendered properly in Revit, so don't design it that way." Any knowledge of how to edit the parameters of the surface graphics for the walltype will be appreciated.

[sbrown]

Can you post a screen shot. You might be able to tab select the surf. pattern and move it up or down. but on complex forms the hatches are going to follow a tangent projection (trying to sound smart here) which isn't what you want which is even horizontal lines. Revit can't figure this out for you, you would have to look at all the curves and decide how the bricks would best be placed on each buldge. Which as the other poster said isn't and easy task.

[Gigmahabir]

What I would suggest, based on my limited view of what you're trying to accomplish, is to build the masonry wall that curves in the x-y plane, making sure that the wall is tall enough to create the proper subtractive geometry. Then cut the profile of the top and bottom using using an in-place wall family built from void extrusions or a swept blend.

[bsqwared]

Here are two elevations, a plan, and another perspective from a different angle. Unfortunatley, i can select pieces of the pattern but it will not let me edit them. Are there simple parameters that can be modified? Or will i have to live with the fact that the two surfaces will be different. Is there a way to join the two surfaces further than just joining geometry?

[bsqwared]

Gigmahabir - I wish that would work! The wall is actually sloped in the Z axis as well, which means i must use a swept blend to create it.

[Gigmahabir]

Now I understand much better given the images you posted!

[patricks]

How about make the sloping wall using a regular blend in plan view, with the same sketch at top and bottom, just offset one from the other. That will give you the curve in plan and the slope, but will have a flat top and bottom. Then in elevation, cut away the top with a void using a void extrusion. It won't be 100% accurate because the wall curves but the void extrusion would be orthogonal, but it would be very, very close I would think.

[Gigmahabir]

That's what I am experimenting with currently and it does seem to do the job. It's worth a try.

The main idea here is to start out with an element that gives you level or desirable coursing, instead of one that does go tangentially like sbrown mentioned.

[cliff collins]

bbeck,

I'm sticking to my guns--I think you have some SERIOUS constructability issues
with that form and the use of masonry. Show the model to the best mason you can find,
and he will tell you the same thing.

Just because you can model something in the computer ( in this case even that is questionable) doesn't mean it can be built in the real world effectively. It seems that
having the new Swept Blend tool allows us to come up with some cool shapes, which is great. But WHY force a material into a form that it is really not well suited to?

Now--that said, there is a project done by SHOP Architects which did have some undulating, organic walls, which were modeled in Rhino and then brought into Revit.
They did get built, and look really amazing. Search for 290 Mulberry, a 13 story residential
project in NY.

FYI--I'm not trying to beat down the design concept-just giving some valuable insight.
I've been down this road many, many times. You may still be able to get the effect of the form, but use a more suitable material--and everyone will be happier in the end.

cheers......

[patricks]

Have a look at this model, is this pretty close to what you're needing?

[sbrown]

If you just draw a curved brick wall in plan, the use an inplace void family to cut the shap out of the top your hatch will look right.

[patricks]

If you just draw a curved brick wall in plan, the use an inplace void family to cut the shap out of the top your hatch will look right.

His wall slopes vertically, hence the need for an in-place wall or a mass with wall applied by face (what I did in my model above).

[Gigmahabir]

Both Patrick's and my model utilize the same idea, either would be a good road map to follow. Again, the key of the matter is to start with an element that produces a level surface pattern for this modeling instance. Most likely this is how the wall will be built, although I do think it will be a difficult wall to build!

Perhaps they're planning on doing direct-to-fabrication where each brick can be computer cut for its proper place? :-)

[bsqwared]

patricks,

that is roughly what i am looking for. Thanks! what you'll be surprised (or not) to know is that this is one of the less ridiculous walls in the project. I understand your intent, cliff, and agree with your basic principles. But when the design architect is Antoine Predock and he sculpts a mass of clay and tells you to put masonry on the wall, there is really nothing anyone can say to change his mind.

[cliff collins]

I'd be willing......

cheers