Consistant View Placement

[Jshaver]

I have been working on a method to consistantly place views on sheets natively within Revit without the aid of a custom program and finally have resolved this issue. I had to dig deep into a bag of tricks but once setup it works like a charm. Please see the attached zip file for a simple vid showing this in action. Let me know if anyone is interested in how this works I can post a bit of info when I have more time.

If I can post the specifics this thread should probobly be moved to the "known issues/workaround " area but I think a moderator must do it.

Cheers,
Jeff S.

[sfaust]

I give up, how did you do that?

[niki_funky]

Tell us your secret.

best regards

[priitl22047477]

Share your knowledge... Please

[Jshaver]

My appologies for the delayed response.
With a slightly different approach to sheet setups and a few family modifications we can work around this limitation. The concept is quite simple in nature but requires understanding of the procedure and careful planning to implement correctly.

The key factor that allows this method to work is while live views share one coordinate system, there are also coordinate systems within drafting views and sheet views. Regardless of the view type when drag and dropping it on the sheet Revit will auto-snap the view’s origin (x=0, y=0) to the sheet space origin (x=0, y=0). When you “hover” over the origin during the placement process Revit will display reference planes along the x and y coordinates near origin (x=0, y=0).
Typically this isn’t apparent because the out of the box title blocks are located far from the family’s origin (x=0, y=0).

Even though we cannot see the coordinate system in Revit it is possible to locate it with a little help from a program that can. Create an AutoCad .dwg file that has lines intersecting the origin (x=0, y=0). This file can then be imported into any view type to locate that views origin (x=0, y=0).:

Plans Concept
All views are placed in sheet space at origin (x=0, y=0) using the drag and drop method described above.
The title block family is then modified to include type parameters that move the title block family around within sheet space relative to the sheet space’s origin (x=0, y=0).
A new type is set up for the varying plan conditions such as Overall, Area A, Area B, Area C, etc along with an independent detail sheet (drafting views).

Detail Sheet Concept (Drafting Views)
All views are placed in sheet space origin (x=0, y=0) using the method described above.
The content within the detail is located at coordinates that correspond to its location in sheet space.
These coordinates can be determined quickly by creating a detail box family with instance parameters (similar to the modified title block family) that relocate the box based on the assumed detail number.

Notes:
It is necessary to constrain the title block family such that the elements/constraints within it are not recognizable during the printing process, otherwise the sheet will not print properly.

Let me know if any of this needs clarification.

[Kevin Janik]

Looks great! I don't get it exactly. Could you do a video setting up the titleblock and views the way you are talking about?

It looks like a great work around to layout everything in exactly the same place on each sheet for plans etc.

Kevin

[priitl22047477]

I will definitely try this one... But yes some help would be needed

The title block family is then modified to include type parameters that move the title block family around within sheet space relative to the sheet space’s origin (x=0, y=0).

[Kevin Janik]

Does anyone have additional input on this? I really don't understand everything but I think it is a very good concept.

Kevin

[sfaust]

I just re-read this and played with it a little, and I now understand where this is coming from. Basically:

1. Create a dwg file that just contains crosshairs at the origin
2. Link dwg in origin to origin into your titleblock
3. Link dwg into a floor plan origin to origin
4. Drag the view onto the sheet and you will see that the two crosshairs will snap directly over each other.

The trick, then, is making parameters that move your entire titleblock around so that it is in the correct place around the plan. That way you can make new sheets with the titleblock in the same place, and since the origin of plans will snap into the same place, they will all line up.

One large caveat that I found out with this is that it only seems to work on initial placement. If you place the view randomly on the sheet and then try to drag it into place it won't snap for some reason, so you have to get it right the first time.

Good to know, though, and interesting concept. Deserves a little bit closer look...

[Kevin Janik]

Steve,

Thanks for the time you took to get into it a bit! I will have to look at it and will the placement issue go away if you delete the view and then drag it onto the sheet?

What about the drafting views? At those about the same? Just create a template one to copy and from there just adjust the scale?

Kevin

[Jshaver]

You are correct. If you miss the placement the first time just remove the view and it drag it back on snapping to the origin.

Getting a bit more technical now regarding the families:

I recommend adding shared parameters to your default titleblock and detail box families, this is not mandatory but makes future project setup more efficient. The parameters should consist of two length "type" parameters. (an x and y offset).

The trick with the titleblock family is to group all of the content. This allows you to constrain the single object to the offset parameters. The titleblock group will need to be constrained to a second group. The second group should consist of two "invisible" lines one for the x direction and one for the y direction.The properties of these two lines within the group must also be set to "invisible" DO NOT use reference lines as they will corrupt the printing. By using these 2x invisible lines Revit does not recognize them as part of the printing extents. Now that your titleblock is "constrained" create the applicable titleblock types; Area - A, Area - B, Area - C, Overall, Detail Sheet, etc..and adjust the new offset parameters accordingly.

Regarding the Details:
Create a symbol family that represents your typical detail box paper space extents and constrain it to the x and y reference planes based off from the lower left corner. In a similar manner to the titleblock constrain the family so it can move based on the detail location. The family will contain a seperate type for each detail number. A second approach to this family is to create an entire sheet layout and use visibility constraints to turn on/off the necessary box location. Using your origin .dwg file you can locate the origin within a drafting view and place the symbol family in the proper location. Then select the appropriate type and create your content within the detail box area. Due to the family being a symbol the location and size will automatically be adjusted according to view scale. A default detail template containing the symbol family the origin can be used otherwise just copy/paste the box from existing details and modified when applicable.

A custom program that places the symbol family at the origin (or one that auto places them on the sheet) would be the bees knees but this will have to suffice.

Provided you are using shared parameters in your families, import them as project parameters within your template files. This way new projects will only require the user to define the initial box size and set up the plan locations if applicable.

Moderators this should be moved into the "Workaround" folder.

[Steve_Stafford]

Jeff alluded to this concept in a comment on my blog the other day and promised to share more details here. Thanks! Very clever solution!

I couldn't help but be disappointed though as soon as I understood that the title block family has to be repositioned for the scheme to work, because Revision Schedules don't like being constrained. Jeff confirmed when I asked him that the projects he's used this on so far did not actually need to use the Revit revision scheduling tools.

I had hoped that grouping the schedule with other constrained line work would solve the problem. Revit fools you into thinking you are on to something because it flexes in the family editor nicely. In the project...not so nicely, it doesn't. The one "solution" I did find that "works" is to add an overlay title block of just a couple "reference" (not actual reference lines) lines and the schedule in a separate family. This is created by copying the title block in place/ paste aligned > current view. Two title blocks in the sheet view, one manages positioning, the other the revision schedule. "yucky" :sad: If only a revision schedule could be detected by a dimension, we could constrain it.

Unless someone else has found a way to constrain a revision schedule so it can be moved around...?

[Jshaver]

Steve is correct. This limitation is present if you are using the native schedule. I have also attempted every possible constraining method including importing a seperate revision view as a group, rfa, or a nested rfa to no avail.

Personally I do not think this terminates the use of this placement method, but rather simplifies it.
As Steve mentioned below the titleblock family containing the revision schedule can be "manually" moved to the correct location without any issues.
Bearing this in mind, a titleblock family can be created containing the parameters and constraints described previously. We will call this family the "origin indicator" It should contain crosshairs that define a location point for the "actual" titleblock for all the necessary types.
Within the project creating a new sheet select the "origin" titleblock and the appropriate type.
Next simply place the actual titleblock and snap it to the appropriate location then remove the "origin indicator". This procedure only needs to be done once for every configuration (Area A, Area B, Details, etc...) When creating your remaining areas simply copy/paste the titleblock from one sheet to the next. Note that the "actual" titleblock will not contain any of the location parameters, constraints, or groups.
Its not as streamlined as the "non-revision schedule" approach but the end result is the same ability to snap views to consistant locations.

A second limitation I would like to point out is the fact that imported images can not be natively added to the titleblock group. This may be able to be overcome by nesting it within a .dwg file or an rfa family. (Haven't tested this yet though)

Again let me know if there are further questions.

[Kevin Janik]

Is there anything to update for Revit 2010 that helps this process or changes it?

Kevin

[marcoavallone]

Thanks guys I'll give this a shot...

Hey It works but you don't need to go through the CAD rigamaroll... Just align the ghosted origin double crosshairs and the move the VP's by a standard dim. Great Revit isn't glitchy at all... Glitchy at all.. all alllll glitchy at all. I would like to sing you a song. "Just what do you think you are doing Dave"

[SamuelAB]

Just use Revit Guide Grids, they were made for this purpose.
http://au.autodesk.com/?nd=auv2011_player
See: Autodesk® Revit® MEP: Classy Construction Documents