Framing tutorials

[rick.74802]

I have gone through the tutorials and have not seen anything on framing. Is there a book or tutorial that someone can point me towards that takes someone through the process of creating a floor framing and roof framing plan for a residential project in Revit?

[SkiSouth]

I've not seen a tutorial on framing. Are you interested in wood or steel framing (I understand its residential, but we use both now in our area.)

[rick.74802]

We use wood framing most of the time. Most of the stuff I do is 2x10s for the main floor framing, 11 7/8" TJIs for the upper floor framing and engineered wood trusses for the roof with stickframing when needed.

[SkiSouth]

A quick summary is this. If you treat a joist as a structural beam in Revit, for it to be UNDER the second floor, you must draw it on the second floor. The problem is that then, normally the view is not setup to show the structure UNDER the floor. So your frustration will be more of managing the views (along with understanding Revit's logic on this one). However, 7.0 has been presented as having a great number of changes in this area. If your project can wait, I think I'd get a copy of 7.0 before I jumped into this mess and get really frustrated.

If you create your own components, (or modify the off the shelf Revit ones) you can treat the elements as any other component and simply insert and array as per ACAD.

[rick.74802]

So what are residential designers who are using Revit 6.1 doing? Are you creating actual floor and roof framing plans in Revit? If someone would be kind enough to post an example of a residential framing plan I would appreciate it.

[BillyGrey]

I use Revit for residential design everyday, but understand it is an parametric BIM product,
and not a product like softplan, chief architect, or cadsoft. Are you really asking if you model a roof or floor, will that data be automatically generated to show detailed joist/truss locations?

It does'nt come out of the box with a framing module, but once you set it up to do so (build a library of components you will frequently use), and insert those components into a template for use, you can model them by manual placement, or using arrays. As far as generating take-off's, I'll leave that q. to the guru's.

I can represent anything with simple 2d lines, which I do for most truss layouts, etc. When I need to model, I do, but I don't understand what you're asking for because there are many diffrent ways to accurately represent a roof framing plan. Are you wanting to "model" all components then extract the data? When it comes down to your CD set, is most of your data represented in 2d? Is this a section cut issue, or everything?

Also, this issue was touched on last week, here's the link.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=9286

If that does'nt help, please elaborate on how you intend to use and represent the data in your model,
in your CD's.

[rick.74802]

What I'm trying to figure out is what is the best way to use Revit for residential design. I do mostly small to large additions, custom homes typically around 3000s.f.-5000s.f., and a lot of plans for a high end spec builder. Typically I do around 100 jobs a year in my one man office.

I currently use ADT2004 but only as 2D Autocad. I've been using Autocad since version 9 so may be switching to Revit will be tougher for me. I always create actual floor framing plans and truss layouts as part of my set of drawings. I do not do material lists nor plan on doing them in the near future.

I understand the main concept of Revit (or at least I think I do). I know it does not generate framing plans and personally I prefer to design framing layouts myself.

What I'm looking for is a time saving tool so I do not have to draw each elevation line by line and same with my sections. Also when you make changes they happen everywhere. This is why I purchased Revit. I would like to be able to model my framing plans but may be that is not practical. I'm guessing floor framing will be pretty easy to model, once I figure out the best way to do that, but truss layouts will probably be better to still do as line drawings.

I am very new to Revit. The tutorials that I have gone through are great for teaching a person how to use Revit but I'm still looking for a tutorial that will take someone through the process of creating a set of CDs (including foundation & framing) for a residential project (preferably a two story house with a complex roof with varying plate heights and a crawl space!)

I'll attach a couple drawings from a typical set of my plans so you can see what I want to duplicate with Revit.

[BillyGrey]

Our work is very similar. You can do all of that in Revit very easily (once you're up to speed).

Unfortunately, I know of no tutorials exclusively for residential design. You're going to have to go through a learning curve, and discover features, or better yet, do a search here, or post a specific Q., and you will have your answers.

Sounds like you are really busy, so be prepared to work in Revit off your production schedule to set up and learn. I would urge you to set up your sheets (title block in annotation family). Then jump into a toss-off project, or one that has a long-shot deadline. Just go through it, and post alot here, until you get it wired. There are number of solo residential designers here, so we can help. So can the rest of the regulars here, they're all pretty good peeps.

Now, other than "Are there tutorials..." is there a specific question I/we can help answer?

[rick.74802]

OK, so here is my 1st framing question. Lets say I want to create a two story house. My first level would go from 0 - 9'. My second level (framing) would go from 9' - 10'-0 5/8" (11 7/8" T.J.I + 3/4" plywd). My third level (upper floor) would go from 10'-0 5/8" - 18' 1 3/4" (8'-1 1/8" plate).

To start my framing I could create a wall that is 1 1/2" think w/ sheathing and siding. Trace that around my second level (for my rim joist) and then place my framing using structural members where I want. On my upper floor I could create a floor that is 3/4" thick to act as my plywd for my framing plan.

Does that sound like the correct way to do what I want or is that the wrong way to do things in Revit? May be there is no right or wrong but I would like to be headed in a good direction.

My next question, do you place a modeled mud sill on a foundation stem wall for your joists to sit on so you get a correct section?

Thanks a lot for everyones feedback. This forum is another big reason why I purchased Revit. All of the support out there is priceless!

[SkiSouth]

Does that sound like the correct way to do what I want or is that the wrong way to do things in Revit? May be there is no right or wrong but I would like to be headed in a good direction.

My next question, do you place a modeled mud sill on a foundation stem wall for your joists to sit on so you get a correct section?

Thanks a lot for everyones feedback. This forum is another big reason why I purchased Revit. All of the support out there is priceless!

One of the first tutorials I remember reading I think was written by czoog on how to setup the exterior wall of a wood framed structure. It discussed the placement of sills, spliting walls, why to use the core placement for your walls etc. I looked, but don't a copy any longer. Either email czoog and see if he can help you, or perhaps someone else here has a copy. I think it came with 4.5 but not sure...

[christopher.zoog51272]

That little tutorial I wrote years ago, eventually became part of my tips and tricks AU class of last year, here is the handout that went with that class. Don't take this as gospel, I really should update it a bit, and I probably will after 7.0



OK, so here is my 1st framing question. Lets say I want to create a two story house. My first level would go from 0 - 9'. My second level (framing) would go from 9' - 10'-0 5/8" (11 7/8" T.J.I + 3/4" plywd). My third level (upper floor) would go from 10'-0 5/8" - 18' 1 3/4" (8'-1 1/8" plate).

Typically I set up my levels (from bottom to top) T.O. Footing, Basment, T.O. Foundation, 1st Floor, T.O. Plate (1st), 2nd Floor, T.O. 2nd or Roof if only two two stories.



To start my framing I could create a wall that is 1 1/2" think w/ sheathing and siding. Trace that around my second level (for my rim joist) and then place my framing using structural members where I want. On my upper floor I could create a floor that is 3/4" thick to act as my plywd for my framing plan.

No, I wouldn't do this. Exterior wall should always go full height, when you lay you floor in use the join geometry option to cut out the portion of the wall where the rim joist is.


My next question, do you place a modeled mud sill on a foundation stem wall for your joists to sit on so you get a correct section?
I wouldn't bother modeling it although you could, I use a detail component to represent the sill in my sections.

[Rhythmick]

Quote:
"To start my framing I could create a wall that is 1 1/2" think w/ sheathing and siding."

Rick, You may not want sheating & siding to show on your floor framing plans, You can use a bare wall for your rim joist and pull the siding down from the wall above to show on your elevations and sections. To set that up, you edit the wall type above using the 'Preview' & 'Modify Vertical Structure' section-'Modify' tab. Set the preview to Section view, pick the bottom line of the siding and unlock it. That will open up the 'Bottom extension distance' parameter for your wall properties to set the distance. (This method can be used for the top of an element as well). The distance can also be dragged from an elevational or sectional view by selecting the line. This feature is also great for lapping sill plate and foundation wall.

Mike Lenz,
Genuine Homes Corp

[rick.74802]

Chris, thank you for that document! That answered a lot of other questions that I had. What is the importance of creating full height exterior walls? My thaught was to build the model like it would be built on site.

My other question is if you don't model a mud sill then when you cut a section your joists sit on the stem wall?

[christopher.zoog51272]

Chris, thank you for that document! That answered a lot of other questions that I had. What is the importance of creating full height exterior walls? My thaught was to build the model like it would be built on site.

My other question is if you don't model a mud sill then when you cut a section your joists sit on the stem wall?
Glad it helped. Using full height exterior walls is just a way of keeping the complexity down, you don't have to worry about making sure the walls stack or weather they are properly constrained, etc. You want to keep the model as lean and mean as possible. Model like you build is a good practice, just know when to say when, you know?

Same with the sill, sure you can add it as a wall sweep attached to the top of the stem wall, but you still have draw in the little "x" in section, why not just use a detail component and be done with it. make sense?

-Z