How to save the stair tool

[Andre Baros]

In 6 years of using Revit, we have never had a stair work properly out of the box. We've made them all work, but only with a lot of work-arounds, in-place families, and vexing trial and error. Each time I've had a different idea on how to the stair tool could work better, and each release has left things exactly the same.

I don't know if there is any ongoing work on the stair tool. I don't know if anyone at Autodesk sees the stair tool as an issue. I don't know if anyone out there is happy with the stair tools as they exist today. But this thread is intended to collect the best ideas in how to make the stairs better.

Please post examples of how things don't work, how you're working around them, and how the tools could be made better.

I wonder if we wouldn't be better off dropping the stair tool all together and adding a new family type for stairs and multi-level stairs. The current stair tools (with changes) would be relocated to the family editor where they would be part of a full toolkit of options together with all the usual family editor tools such as solids, voids, and nested components (and railings). When you drop a stair into a project, you get a the whole stair. The stair would come in a complete entity with voids cut out, custom components built in, and railings associated. This would not address the issues of connecting a concrete stair to a concrete floor and related issues, but it would make it easier to draw stairs the way they actually need to get built.

Another idea is to allow the creation of intelligent stair components such as stairs, and landings, in addition to railings and profiles.

Maybe this won't go anywhere, but I've heard a lot of good ideas about fixing stairs and thought that it might be productive to put all those ideas in one place. Maybe if this goes somewhere we can pass along the results. Problems and solutions, not just empty complaints.

Thanks

[Scott Womack]

You need to take the time and effort to post this as a wish-list item in the Revit Wish List

[Andre Baros]

Eventually I intend to post this on the wish list, but I thought it would be helpful to work out a "unified front" before posting it there. There is a lot of room for improvement and many directions to take, before I post a "wish" and before I send this to Autodesk again, I would like to get the communities feedback and narrow the "wish".

[Scott Womack]

Eventually I intend to post this on the wish list, but I thought it would be helpful to work out a "unified front" before posting it there. There is a lot of room for improvement and many directions to take, before I post a "wish" and before I send this to Autodesk again, I would like to get the communities feedback and narrow the "wish".

Wasn't trying to rain on the concept!

Although custom railing posts help simplify things amazingly, the stairs themselves need work.

1) need stringer profiles
2) Need stairs that can overlap one stair vertically (3 runs to a floor to floor height)
3) When the bottom stingers are extended to meet a floor at the top or bottom, It needs to add a landing in those areas automatically
4) Need to have a check box for offsetting the risers by 1/2 tread at middle landings
5) Need better advanced stair and railing tutorials/documentation
6) Need better nosing profile control for a sloped riser, to have a small radius nosing to be continuous in the metal riser

[davidcobi]

Material patterns for stairs and ramps should be visible in plan view.
Better support for elliptical stairs and their railings.

[clog boy]

I like the freeform stairs option. Though I dislike how screwy the stringers end up looking. We have one stairs manufacturer, and actually took the time to make a non-parametric stairs library. This is possible since all our projects have a level height of 2900mm.

Honestly, this should not be much harder than creating a door or window. One could even make it a floorbased family to include the opening. One could model a Revit design stairs, then crosscheck with the stairs manufacturer to have them deliver drawings for that specific stairs and then have one of the CAD monkeys model that stairs for construction drawings and artist impressions.

[twiceroadsfool]

The bigger issue for me, is railings on the stairs. But yes, the entire system needs work. Scotts suggestions are all huge. With respect to railings, the following:

We need to be able to sketch railing paths in elevation, just like a sweep. Try showing a proper ADA railing end otherwise. The railing/baluster "height and offset" simply doesnt cut it.

The baluster placement system is a bit clunky too. On a staircase with 2 runs and a landing, i have 5 sections of railing. If im equally spacing glass panels (balusters) i may beed 5 different baluster family-types, and 5 different railing types, with different spaces defined. We need the OPTION of manaully placing balusters. We also need the ability (in the baluster families?) to dimension them "off adjacent baluster." Im not sure how that would work, but we need it.

Traditional sketch rules need to disappear, ENTIRELY. I understand that sketches behave as if theyre flat, but stairs are not flat. If (in plan) a stair case makes a 245 degree turn so the run above crosses OVER the run below, i need to be able to do that. Yes, i know i can do it with multiple stairs, but then i lose the capability to keep it unified. Unless i add in an intermediate level, etc.

A MINOR thing: I think the Stair and the Shaft tool should combine, in a way. Or a shaft option should be added to the stair tool. I dont want a shaft object AND a stair object in the same place, since one or the other is dependant on its counterpart.

Railings- Need to be able to tag type, not just material. railing designs may be detailed as types, not just materials.

On the whole i know everything i want is already POSSIBLE to do, through a series of special techniques, like making multiple railing types... But the average project user trying to meet a deadline isnt going to mess with it, and the stair detailing and drawing is going to turn out drafting view city...

[jj mac]

Great post idea...

I'd like to see more flexibility with graphical options for plan views:
- Ability to change arrow types on stairs plan views for both tail and head
- Ability to move cut line and/or change to a different cut style (like the angled break line masking region)
- Ability to show risers dashed below treads

I dido the above comments especially with railings, and the top risers flexibility to join to a floor/landing.

[Zoltan]

It would be really great if the rails and balusters acted like the grid lines of the curtainwall, where the type parameters control the automatic spacing of the pattern, but selecting a single baluster would allow you to unpin it to make it's type association independent and move it manually. This way, you could also add and remove balusters manually.