How do you coordinate with Arch Revit BIM

[Buzter]

We are new at this and trying to figure out how others have mastered or got to work the sharing or using of the Arch BIM...not using the coordination method (which we were told has glitches...may or may not work). Most of the Arch. we work with draw everything for presentations so they have everything there, just probably not the right size. Do you use theirs as an underlay, draw your walls, openings, foundations, slabs, trusses etc. Or do you use there model, save as different name, take out what you don't want, modify what they have as far as foundation, slabs, trusses, and put in your headers???? Mind is mud on this. Seems like if we redraw everything they already have drawn, we are going back in time as far as technology...and the room for error is huge?? Thoughts?? Ideas?? or even some thickening agent for muddy brain right now. Thanks in advance.

[G_J]

I have tried a few different ways to coordinate with the other disciplines, I work for a company that use MEP, Arch, and Structure.

The first project I did in Revit was with our Architects, and basically I just took a copy of the model and worked from there. The problem then is there is no "tools" to assist with coordination. Everything is visual coordination, and it is far easier to manipulate 2D line sin AutoCAD than 3D elements in Revit, I would never model that way again, far too much room for human error.

I trialed a project with the same architect, this time we worked from a single central model, taking local copies, setting up worksets, and keeping the worksets checked out so we could not edit eachothers elements. I found this worked well, the clash detection tools still work on a single model and providing you have a clear line of communication with the architect this method worked a treat. The project is now built and we made a nice profit. Although it is not advised on large projects (60MB+)

A project I am working on currently is with an external architect, I am having anightmare of a time. We are linking models, and using the copy/monitor tools. The problem is

1. The architects are deleting elements rather than moving them, so it is always a process of re-copy and re-monitor.

2. The architects made some major changes, dropping all the levels, adjusting the building footprint, etc. This led me to decide that future projects I will wait as late as possible before modeling any structure.

3. It appears the architects don't want to communicate, I don't know if they think Revit does all the work..... They make changes and don't inform anyone, with Revit there is a need for communication accross disciplines, even more so than AutoCAD.

So to answer your question, there are various ways to collaborate, and all have good and bad points.

Refer to the attached pdf file for a report I wrote about our experience with a single multidiscipline model.

Hope my post helps shed some light on your situation.


Regards.


Glenn

[G_J]

Also see attached files regarding collaboration that I picked up from the Revit Technology conference last year in Australia.


Regards

[G_J]

This article in AUGI World might be useful.


Regards

[jonp]

I must weigh in on this.
When we first started using Revit, we used copy/monitor as our way of coordinating between Structure and the Architects model. The copy/monitor of course never worked correctly and the additional work you had to do drove us mad. Having to select every single piece of wall that had to be copied and many times they either wouldn't copy or copied wrong.

After two years of this, we finally tried worksharing with Arch/Struc sharing the same model. The difference has been night and day. No more copy/monitor issues. No additional work to setup a file. We have gone this route and haven't looked back. The current project I am working on is over 100 meg so large jobs haven't been a problem. Everyone seems to like this better as the architects can see our structural changes any time they save to central and vice-versa. No more reloading and coordination review, plus the arch pulls in the mech/elec. which in turn is visible to us.

Jon

[clintonc]

We are consultants and work with various architects. How can you share the same model with an architect that doesn't share the same office space?

[G_J]

We have only shared the same model with our own architects, that is not a problem if they are in other offices as we store the central file on a "national drive."

When working with external architects I use linked files.


Regards

[Misteracad]

Refer to the attached pdf file for a report I wrote about our experience with a single multidiscipline model.

Thanks Glenn! I for one am very glad to see someone share their personal experiences such as this, as well as how they learned from their mistakes and made positive strides going forward! This is the kind of real world situation that can help those who are struggling to convince management that Revit is in fact capable of being used in Prime Time with the right approach and commitment. Even more importantly I think, is the fact that you shared a report to your superiors that explains to management exactly what worked and how you accomplished positive results on a project...and made $$$ doing it lol!. I can see this little document being a nice conversation starter for many companies and individuals who are fighting an uphill battle with those who don't quite see the light yet :roll:

Thanks again, this :beer: is on me!

Tim

[G_J]

Not a problem,

I'm glad my report helped.

I am also in the process of putting together a presentation on Multidiscipline Collaboration on single central files, and linked models for the Revit Technology Conference 2009 in Melbourne. The conference will take place in June this year, once I have done the presentation (if I remember) I will upload my presentation slides and the detailed presentation outline to this thread.

Or if anyone is interested, closer to the time drop me an email (after 20th of June) to glenn.jowett@opus.co.nz and I will email you the information.

Regards

[Craig_L]

My office has also recently done a multi-discipline model, it was quite a large and complex project, and we used one common model between all of the disciplines.

I will say that co-ordination was pretty much the only headache during the process.
Come up with a game plan for how you are going to communicate and stick with it.
I can pretty much guarantee you that an hour meeting once a week to discuss possible changes, or needs for something to move will save you hours further down the track.

It seems one thing with Revit rings true no matter which aspect of it you are referring to.
You must spend some time up front, to reap the rewards at the back end. If you model something poorly or incorrectly all your sections and details will be off. Same applies to co-ordination if you dont spend any time on this before jumping into the project you will have issues compounding the further the project progresses.

It was general consensus for us through all disciplines, at the end of the project, that co-ordination needed to be improved for the next time. You will probably find that your method will need adjusting and it may take 2 or 3 projects to get a proceedure that works for you. But co-ordination with your structure is key to reduced stress during your project.

Structures almost need to force the architects to communicate by taking ownership of elements permanently, so if an architect wishes to move it, he needs to have a structural person do the change, which means it wont be missed.

Good luck.

[jcapp]

Thanks for the posts, I am also working with an external architect and up to this point we have been linking our models, with mixed results.

My question is regarding worksharing, how can you use worksharing in linked models? Since we do not share a server am I correct in that we cannot share a model through use of a central file?

thanks
joe

[G_J]

If working with an external architect you will most likely not be able to share the model through the use of a single central file, unless one of you had access to the other users server, but this could have a poor connection and have a negative impact on model performance.

Linking models works ok providing the models are created correctly and the design team communicate.

I cannot stress that enough, my current project the architects are making pretty major changes and not communicating this, yes Revit has coordination tools, and yes Revit has clash detection tools, but the best coordination tool is picking up the phone and speaking to the design team.


Regards

[jcapp]

Thanks glenn, I asked this question because on page 1165 of the 2009 user guide, I read the following line:


"You can also use worksharing in linked models."

However I can't find a reference to this anywhere.
thanks for your time
joe

[G_J]

When the userguide refers to worksharing it is meaning the use of worksets.

You can set up worksets within your team so different members can work on different parts of the building. You might have a 3 storey building and split workset up by floor. So you can have multiple users working on the model simultaneously.

Hope that helps.


Regards