STC Conflict - argh!!

[cporter.207875]

O.K., so I am at the point where I think I understand worksets quite well... In my arch firm, we never have problems with worksharing. I am currently "leased out" to an MEP firm to help them troubleshoot and impliment Revit standards, and a couple users in this firm continue to have STC conflict on a daily basis. They are the only ones, by the way, that experience this problem. I don't have a print screen of the error message, and I can't figure out how to duplicate the same error on my machine, but I'll try to describe it.

User A opens his local file at 7:00 a.m and works for 3 hours without RL and without STC.

User B opens his local file at 9:00 am and works for 1 hour without RL and without STC.

At 10:00 a.m., user A attempts to STC, but gets error message, "cannot STC until User B STC and Relinquishes."

So... User B attempts to STC, but gets the exact same (but opposite) error message, "cannot STC until User A STC and Relinquishes.

How does this happen and is there anyway around it without one user sacrificing the work done since his last STC? Apparently, changes have been made by both users to the same element... but that should be impossible with "borrowing." These guys often lose half a day's work... almost every day. What can i do to fix it and keep it from happening again.

Thanks

[chodosh]

You can hate me for this, but I saw this between two users who just had bad wires and their connections to the network therefore were shaky. They also frequently had links drop out on them, and were unable to open their Local files after creating them. The disconnects were so short, just milliseconds and it was enough for them to touch something and that ping either never would make it back to the Central, or never made it over to the other user's Local.

A suggestion, besides checking the physical hardware, would be to have these two work on different assignments in completely different areas of the model for a week. Make sure their assignments do not overlap at all. See how things go for a week. Also, encourage them to Reload Latest frequently as they go, and STC every hour.

[bcgatti]

I don't know if this helps at all, but I have seen this happen a couple times when someone has inadvertantly opened the Central Model instead of a local copy and also when a local file has managed to get "out of sync" with the Central Model. When either of these have happened, we've had to re-establish the Central Model then create new locals for the users.

How often are the users creating new local files?

I agree with "echo", they should be saving to central often and reloading latest as well - that way their copy should not get out of sync with central..

[twiceroadsfool]

I understand that its not the issue at hand, since something else seems to be letting them borrow the same elements.... But i have to ask anyway:

Why on earth are people working for three HOURS without saving to central??? I tell everyone on my team to STC everytime theyre saving, period. I understand the pitfalls of STC, and that some people prefer to save locally more often, and STC once every few saves, but inherently these are ALWAYS the people having more trouble with saving, as well.

The LONGEST i would tolerate anyone going is an hour, and (in my personal opinion) thats pushing it. In a 130 MB model, with 5 people in it, i told them to save every twenty minutes. When they complained, didnt do it, had a crash, and lost work, i then reminded them that they didnt want to save every twenty minutes, lol...

[Andre Carvalho]

Aaron is right. And on top of that, the longer you work without saving to central, the longer it will take to save to central when you decide to do so anyway...

Andre Carvalho

[cporter.207875]

Thx ev1 for your comments. I understand the problems associated with not STC often, not RL often, etc. I have only been helping these guys out for a couple weeks, and I have found that no one uses the same methods or best practices when managing files, and everyone thinks they know what they are doing. In fact, one of the guys this has been happening to thought RL was the way to reload the linked arch model. Now that one surprised me... In short, getting some to listen is hard, at best... but they are learning.
In any case, I believe james.klatt answered this post for me in another thread.

"I am 99.9% sure that will fix it. We used to have that problem 2 to 3 times a day for roughly 3 months. It would happen with up to 5 users at a time. It would take me 1 to 2 hours a day minimum just to "untangle" everyone so no work was lost. We had been working with Autodesk when they were developing the fix. Let me guess it is mainly lights and electrical devices, maybe some mechanical air terminals? Long story short it has to do with revit unlinking and relinking links in milliseconds during save and communications to central and those devices losing and regaining their host. Causing them to be "borrowed" by multiple people at the same time. Something like that, but anyway once we did WU#3 it has not happened since."

[twiceroadsfool]

That said, make them save every twenty minutes. If they ask why, say *because thats the way youre safe from not losing work, and its non negotiable."

Ill never understand why people argue to disprove something that has virtually NO downside, and has the POTENTIAL to help them, hehehe...

[cporter.207875]

Tell me about it

[truevis]

Are the users making new local RVTs at least daily?

[cporter.207875]

That is one of the things I told them to do, but the response I get is this: "That seems like to much hassle, so I'll think about it and let you know."

[truevis]

That is one of the things I told them to do, but the response I get is this: "That seems like to much hassle, so I'll think about it and let you know."
No wonder they have problems. They are too lazy to run a 10 second make-locals BAT or AutoHotKey script, but don't mind losing a half a days work.:screwy::banghead::cry:

[twiceroadsfool]

That is one of the things I told them to do, but the response I get is this: "That seems like to much hassle, so I'll think about it and let you know."

Stop everything IMMEDIATELY, and go to management. The trouble your having is what every firm goes through, until management reinforces that properly methodology IS NOT OPTIONAL.

New locals, EVERY MORNING.

STC, EVERY TWENTY MINUTES.

NO ONE in the central files.

These three thigns are non negotiable, mandatory, to be terminated if not followed. And im dead serious. Revit isnt AutoCAD, where you can get a *rectangle* any one of six ways, without the implications of your actions coming back to haunt you. This stuff matters, and if management wont back you up, youll never survive...

[cporter.207875]

Thanks for the encouragement. I have been given authority by management to write the company's Revit standards, rules, and regulations. This is not a quick task, but it will go a long way to getting everyone on the same playing field.
As I am most familiar with Revit Architecture, my firm, and the Architecture profession in general, I am inclined to proceed a bit slowly, so that I can get a better feel for this MEP firm's general workflow & team organization, unwritten cd standards, and root causes of day-to-day Revit hassles (not knowing the Revit ABCs). On the positive side, the company partners have agreed they want to move forward and become leaders in the industry's transition to BIM, thus they have given me wide leeway in designing and implimenting the firm's plan and strategy. However, it may be that I need to grow an iron fist if I want any of this work to take root. We shall see...

cLp

[Misteracad]

That is one of the things I told them to do, but the response I get is this: "That seems like to much hassle, so I'll think about it and let you know."

That's classic lol :?, but unfortunately a response I've heard/seen too often. Seems like anything to do with Revit, like learning best practices and understanding WHY it doesn't work like AutoCAD, is "just too much trouble" lol. Hmm, maybe YOU (rogue user) just aren't the right person for this program! It goes back to finding the right people with the right mindset for adopting this new methodology without asking...Why? Why? Why? You give them the reasons why and they still don't believe you or take heed...it's an uphill battle for sure :banghead:

[twiceroadsfool]

It stems from what i mentioned before about a rectangle in AutoCAD. Think of the different ways you can make it:

Four lines drawn in succession, then pline > form, add, whatever.

Line drawn, then offset. Then two lines drawn connecting, then pline.

Line drawn, offset, copies rotated, trimmed.

Xlines drawn, trimed.

Rectangle tool.

Etc... and (for the most part, barring discussions on lines vs. plines) it didnt matter. So the industry standard has been like McDonalds "you can have it your way." Now, rogue users think its alright, as theyre not using the foresight to see the implications of what theyre doing, and management is (typically) used to letting them work in an endlessly customizable fashion, to accomodate everyone, except the whole.

Those days are gone. Tell them new locals every day, STC every twenty minutes. The minute they cant comply, show them the door. :)

[lev.lipkin]

STC conflict is indication of issue which needs to be looked at. Please send central and 2 local files to Support for investigation. This will help to us to do implementation adjustment in future releases which might be possible, or/and provide advise on how to avoid such situations.
Thanks for your help and sorry for trouble.

[cporter.207875]

STC conflict is indication of issue which needs to be looked at. Please send central and 2 local files to Support for investigation. This will help to us to do implementation adjustment in future releases which might be possible, or/and provide advise on how to avoid such situations.
Thanks for your help and sorry for trouble.

Thanks.
The STC conflict was resolved with WU3. We haven't experienced it since.