Interior elevations outline

[kginty81]

How do I make the interior elevations oulined and bold. I am in 09. I searched, but only founds threads from 06. Is there a better way now? I know I can print the crop view, but can I make the crop view print darker/ bolder. Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks

Kevin

[nsinha73]

Hi Kevin,
We use Masking Regions, works pretty Good. We can also shape around Ceilings and Caseworks.....
Use the fat lines as your shape then a simple rectangular "Invisible line as the Outer Line...outside the Crop Region

[kginty81]

Really, that is kind of lame.

[niki_funky]

You can make the Crop region as fat as you want in 2 clicks of the mouse using Override Graphics in View. But I don't really understand what are trying to achieve.

niki

[SCShell]

Hey there,
Maybe we don't understand the question. If you are referring to profiled geometry edges, then you may want to use the Advanced Model Graphics feature to override all of your silhouette (profile) lines.

Hope this is what you were referring to.
Steve

[cporter.207875]

If I understand the questions, I think Niki hit the nail on the head. Just remember to uncheck "hide crop boundaries" in your print set-up dialogue. See attached.

[kginty81]

My question is, when I make an elevation, it auto generates an elevation based on walls floor and ceiling. However, it does not look like Arch standard graphics- bold lines around the outside (or section cuts) of the elevation.

Why does it require some extra work to make edge lines look thick?

[nsinha73]

My question is, when I make an elevation, it auto generates an elevation based on walls floor and ceiling. However, it does not look like Arch standard graphics- bold lines around the outside (or section cuts) of the elevation.

Why does it require some extra work to make edge lines look thick?

How would you do it in AutoCAD?

[kginty81]

You can make the Crop region as fat as you want in 2 clicks of the mouse using Override Graphics in View. But I don't really understand what are trying to achieve.

niki

Thats good, but only for rectangle elevations, no soffit's or anything

[kginty81]

How would you do it in AutoCAD?

Draw thicker linework. I was looking for smart bold elevations, that change when the design changes.

[cliff collins]

One post suggested using Advanced Model Graphics, and adjusting
the sillouette with medium or heavy lines--this has a subtle effect, and helps in showing
object lines/ profiles as heavier automatically.

If you need more "punch", you can also draw Model Lines and lock them to the objects so they stay attached if profiles are edited later. ( don't use Drafting Lines, as they are view specific.)

Do these techniques help?

cheers.............

[kginty81]

If you need more "punch", you can also draw Model Lines and lock them to the objects so they stay attached if profiles are edited later. ( don't use Drafting Lines, as they are view specific.)

Do these techniques help?

cheers.............

A- can you attach model lines to a section cut through a wall, I am not finding it easy to do...

B- this appears to be more work than the masking region.

(Seeing how I dont spend much time here, I assume everyone uses revit for work, and not so much for fun. Making efficience an important factor)

[cliff collins]

A-
1. Go to Object Styles, and adjust line weights for Projection and Cut for the objects
This will control how they read in plan, elevation and section/elevation, etc. Getting Object Styles set up will make all of your drawings read better, and be much more consistent.

2. For an individual view, you can use the Linework Tool to override certain objects quickly
to add punch/depth. Or you can highlight the object, right-click and override graphics
per object or category.

B- Model Lines

Yes--this method is more involved but will give you the most flexible way of controlling
precise graphics--and agreed, not very "BIM".

The whole point of BIM is to work smarter, not harder. But sometimes you must work harder at first, to reap the benefits later!

cheers..................

[saeborne]

Would the Linework tool help in this regards?

[kginty81]

Would the Linework tool help in this regards?

No, because the outside lines/ cut lines of the wall can be lineweight super fat- but if the crop window snaps- it always cuts it down to a thin line. I have tried this method. When it does work, you need to use the penweight tool, and very carefully pull the crop view box away so you can read the lineweights, without seeing too much info outside the room.

[kginty81]

Hi Kevin,
We use Masking Regions, works pretty Good. We can also shape around Ceilings and Caseworks.....
Use the fat lines as your shape then a simple rectangular "Invisible line as the Outer Line...outside the Crop Region

After further review, this is the best of the lame options. It locks to walls and ceilings nicely, but is a lot of extra work when we have sheets and sheets of interior elev's.

I guess I can only dream and complain for now.

Thanks everyone.

Kevin

[nsinha73]

:-D We have been there and Done that!! Masking Region is a lot less head ache then other Options......Plus the result is good....

[kginty81]

less head ache

Still a headache, but you guys are the masters.

[kingjosiah]

Count another vote for the masking region.

Not only are the graphics the most consistent, but it is simple enough to jog around soffits, casework, etc. The only downside is that the masking region does not retain any intelligence as was discussed earlier.

That said, i wonder if locking the masking region to the related geometry would negate that downside. I've been hesistant to do so for fear of putting too many constraints/calculations on the model.

Anyone locked masking regions successfully without problem?

- Jon

[- - - SHOE - - -]

I've used Mask Regions and locked them to basic model elements with success. You just really need to be aware of EXACTLY what your locking to. Consider it's static hierarchy of the element within the architecture. Wall face at end of corridor = good. Frame of cross corridor door = Bad. It's not a perfect system, but it cuts down on the little adjustments to major elements. (like when you start moving walls 1/8" to clean you your face of gyp. dimension strings.) I usually stick to major ceiling planes, room bounding walls, floors. If you make changes to architectural details i.e. soffits, window mullions, equipment/millwork you still need to coordinate. Pick your battles, and expect a few extra 'remove constraints' warning as you get used to the process.

FYI - Set up a very particular View Template for Interior Elevations only that culls out any extra worksets, links, family catagories, whatever else before setting up your mask regions. (I locked a bunch of masks to a floor finish workset that was set 1/4" off the slab. That was a ****** Monday afternoon for a few of us.)

Oh and I use the 'Break Line' detail component with it's incorporated 'wipeout' to terminate open ended elevations. The inner sketch line of the mask region runs under the break line wipeout and it looks good. (enough...)

Good Luck,
Dex

[greg.mcdowell]

Seems to me it's time to rethink "how we've always done this."

In interior elevaation is really a section through a room right? So what if we showed sectional information as well? I've found a lot of places where if I hadn't included the section in the elevation I would not have found something that needs addtional attention and detailing.

I don't think it hurts and it's a heck of a lot easier than manually managing all those masking regions.

[cporter.207875]

I know it goes against convention, but I often show sectional information on my interior elevations, as well. Mind you, this does not eliminate the need for building sections, but it does help show special conditions in rooms that may not be addressed in your building sections.

[SCShell]

Seems to me it's time to rethink "how we've always done this."

In interior elevaation is really a section through a room right? So what if we showed sectional information as well? I've found a lot of places where if I hadn't included the section in the elevation I would not have found something that needs addtional attention and detailing.

I don't think it hurts and it's a heck of a lot easier than manually managing all those masking regions.

Hey there,
I have always believed this to be the case. Put me down for a "yes" vote.
Steve

[greg.mcdowell]

re Shoe

To organize your browser you might try creating an additional project parameter for views so you can group them together. You might use this to group all the interior elevations of a room together for example. You'll also need to change your browser views to sort by this new parameter.

Search a bit on the forums and you'll find more on this (With pictures even!). It's been discussed several times.

[DaveP]

No, because the outside lines/ cut lines of the wall can be lineweight super fat- but if the crop window snaps- it always cuts it down to a thin line. I have tried this method. When it does work, you need to use the penweight tool, and very carefully pull the crop view box away so you can read the lineweights, without seeing too much info outside the room.

I think this is the crux of the issue. The View gets Cropped AFTER the Lineweights have been applied. If Revit would Crop the View and THEN apply the lineweights, the edges would still be a bold line. I have submitted this as a bug.

We create our Interior Elevations, then Zoom in and move the Crop Region just a little bit (1/4" to 1/2") out. Yes, we have to do all 4 sides.

As for not showing the wall where a Base Cabinet exists, I've never understood that convention. Are you trying to tell someone that there is no wall behind the Cabinet?

[myBIMhero]

This is how we currently handle Interior Elevation Edges. Does anyone know a better way?

1. Create a masking region.

2. Use pick line tool set to lock and pick the edges all around the room - this includes casework, soffits, inside windows, sloped ceilings, etc...... We use the #5 line weight so it's heavy.

3. Draw a rectangle with the invisible line outside your heavy lines. when finished, you will have a "donut" masking region.

4. Extend the crop region edges so that they sit between your heavy lines and invisible lines.


This seems like a lot of work particularly with a product that is supposed to be about instant drafting! The reason that we do not make the crop boundary thicker and set it on the center of the room edges, is two-fold. First, that only works for perfectly rectangular rooms with straight flat edges. You do not want to have 2 different types of work flow processes. Secondly, you cannot use the global "Hide Crop Boundary" command when printing. This means that you have to make SURE all crop boundaries are turned off throughout the project except your perferctly rectangular rooms.

Anyone find a better solution? Because this is a ****** tedious process that really defeats the purpose of Revit. Some things Revit does great and other things make me wonder if they ever talked to an Architect before making this software.

[nsinha73]

Really, that is kind of lame.

Really...Thanks. Now whats your method?

[twiceroadsfool]

Seems to me it's time to rethink "how we've always done this."

In interior elevaation is really a section through a room right? So what if we showed sectional information as well? I've found a lot of places where if I hadn't included the section in the elevation I would not have found something that needs addtional attention and detailing.

I don't think it hurts and it's a heck of a lot easier than manually managing all those masking regions.

Thats the *better solution,* and its spot on. Elevations are drawn horizontally, and whatever they cut... They cut. It it shows something in section, thats because something is crossing the view plane and SHOULD be in section.

Props to you guys for fussing with masking regions all day. I drop the elevation marker, place the view on the sheet, and its good to go. Never had an RFI over it yet, LOL.

[dbaldacchino]

The reason that sectional info. is traditionally missing from interior elevations, is that it would take a lot of man hours to manually draw and coordinate all that information that is "useless" to the trades looking at those interior elevations. I mean, no one is building the ductwork based on those interior elevations, so why show them and waste time? There's no argument that elevations that show ONLY elements below ceilings with bold edge lines etc. look better and focus the viewer on the information that is most important. However we now work in a different domain: the information IS THERE. So showing that information is easier than crafting some method to not show it. Yes, it's not as pretty as before (no printed drawing from any software is as artistic and good-looking as a well-made hand drawing, we know that....). Plus, it gives you yet another opportunity to spot errors. So I'd say...if you're competing with my firm, then keep masking, 'cause I've got work to do ;)

[ron.sanpedro]

Why not split the difference. My preferred process is to get ALL the elevations tagged and sheeted as early as possible, without donuts. The point is to have a good cartoon set before SD is even over. In DD you choose a few elevations to show in the pricing set or to show the client design intent; typicals, perhaps some worst case and such. These get all the annotations and what not, and if need be donuts. There aren't many, so not a huge deal. Just because I HAVE 120 interior elevations doesn't mean I need to print all those sheets! The rest stay donut free till about 90% CDs, when things have settled down to the point that managing the donuts thru changes isn't a nightmare.
With that process you minimize the pain, and still have a set go out that looks right. You might have to actually walk the PM and senior management thru both the process and the results, and show them what a pain ongoing donut maintenance is, but hey, that's what a BIM Manager is for, eh? Just tell them that donuts now are a bit like shoe polish on nice leather boots. While the leather is still on the cow. And the cow is still eating.

That said, yeah, the fact that Revit can't get such a simple thing right automatically is a bit ridiculous. But before they fix this I would like to see jogged elevations like you can sections. And jogged elevation depth too. And elevation bubbles that actually look like they should (meaning I get to decide what they bloody well look like! ;) And before all that, I NEED some site tools that fail to suck. And materials that can show both a color and a hatch for finish plans and elevations. And maybe some doors that know what room they are in in a less retarded way than we have now (like ADT has had for years, for the love of deity). And a REAL answer to CA revision sketches! SO many things I would like to see before they fix the elevation donuts kludge. ;)

Gordon

[twiceroadsfool]

I dont care if they ever fix it, becuase i dont think it needs fixing. Right now were all complaining that it doesnt *automatically assume what we want.* God help us if it DOES start to assume that stuff.

[sbrown]

I've done both and for Design drawings I do the mask, for CD's I don't. Here is an example of an Interior Elevation sheet that I would produce.

[myBIMhero]

I feel like I opened a can of worms on a 6 month old thread!!

Thanks Scott & Gordon - I prefer your solutions. The reason I asked was that I wanted to leave the Interior Elevations as is per Aaarons suggestion. I am having a hard time convincing the old school folks - those are the ones that are always most vocal with the 2 words I hate the most............OFFICE STANDARD. They fail to realize that standards evolve, things change. What you did in hand drafting changed for CAD and now what you do in CAD shall change for BIM. I really like the idea of showing a room section/elevation to see the ceiling and fixtures. I was just curious about what others are doing cause I hate the donut solution but it was the best thing we came up with after checking AUGI and RevitCity.

I will push for Scotts elevations because the more informed the contractor is, the better.

Thanks.

[mhenderson]

If it were possible to edit the crop region to be something other than a rectangle, the issue would be largely solved. It would be cool if you could go into sketch mode and define the extent of the crop region with the ability to lock the sketch lines to particular elements. This would be helpful in just about any view where crop regions are used. I wouldn't want to be required to do a sketch to create the crop region, but if it were an option, I think it would be a very useful one.

[bulletproofdesign]

I may be way off, but couldn't you use visibility graphics to adjust the projection/cut line thickness if you need to be sheet specific or use object styles for a global change...

[StratCat]

Now that we have non-rectangular view ports we need to option to set the line-weight of the crop region for printing. This would eliminate the need for masking regions.