[2010] - Space Manipulation (OPEN)

[dzuff]

I think it would be very useful to have the ability to change the distance of a space in the mechanical revit model. In my project now, the architect has poorly defined some spaces, and the ability to drag the space to the point where it should be would be very useful for energy analysis.

[mwiggins121466]

They are called zones I believe.

[dzuff]

Yes but zones are dictated by the spaces themselves. Therefore, if the space is wrong, the zone will be wrong as well.

[eglover]

Can you have the architects use rooms, rather than spaces? Then you can set your own independent spaces. (I believe this was the point of having both available.)

[cliff collins]

The Architect should be determining the shape of the space, in 3D, and using Rooms
correctly so that the Mech. engineer has the proper data for analysis.

cheers............

[wilson_martinez]

Architects have Room, MEP guys have spaces, but you cannot created spaces at will, they are dictated by the rooms architects create, which in most cases are created for their own purposes and not the mechachical engineers, sometimes they break the room into 2 or 3 rooms so creating room that we engineers don't need, Mechanical, Electrical and Plumbing need room to be just the 4 walls separating the building.

The architects are not wrong nor the engineers but Autodesk needs to make Revit mep be able to separate spaces in whatever way we want without been bound by the architect rooms.

to clarify, architect need to create more logical rooms inside the fisical rooms for planing and scheduling purposes but engineers only need the fisical room, 4 walls, for load calcs,

the space naming utility was a big help for the mep community now we need the space thing to be worked out, thanks

[Joe Fields]

I would have to agree, adding the spaces gave the mechanical engineer a little more control but it wasn't much. We need more ways to manipulate spaces for our load calcs. I think it would also help, for verification purposes, to add envelope data (wall areas, wall orientation, window area, etc.) to the spaces element properties dialog.

[Beancud]

In our team, all we do is add walls to internal spaces and create our own room on top of Architect's room.

We do quite a bit of this to get spatial separation, which is very useful since IES picks up the new defined rooms.

The only thing we don't fiddle with is the external wall since the facade is complex and contains much properties that define the out come of the calc

[Simon.Whitbread]

So - Instead of making the Architects model 'room bounding', construct an 'analysis' model with 'space separation lines'

That way, initial analysis can be more accurate (as much as concept design can be), your spaces and zones actually work correctly.

This could be enhanced with an MEP Massing model, at least you can ensure a 'watertight' model for analysis, which, lets face it, you are never going to get from an Architect (apologies to Design Architects out there!)

There are downsides to this, especially on large buildings, if you need to name all the spaces, but its better than nothing

[chriskline2007]

Architects have Room, MEP guys have spaces, but you cannot created spaces at will, they are dictated by the rooms architects create, which in most cases are created for their own purposes and not the mechachical engineers, sometimes they break the room into 2 or 3 rooms so creating room that we engineers don't need, Mechanical, Electrical and Plumbing need room to be just the 4 walls separating the building.

The architects are not wrong nor the engineers but Autodesk needs to make Revit mep be able to separate spaces in whatever way we want without been bound by the architect rooms.

to clarify, architect need to create more logical rooms inside the fisical rooms for planing and scheduling purposes but engineers only need the fisical room, 4 walls, for load calcs,

the space naming utility was a big help for the mep community now we need the space thing to be worked out, thanks

You could place a space, and then use the space separator tool to redraw the boundaries of that space. That allows you to break up a room into multiple spaces regardless of where the bounding walls are in the linked architectural model. Does this help, or am I missing the exact nature of your problem?

[sgermano]

thats what I do to define like exterior zones or "spaces" along the curtain walls for calcs. but I would add all those spaces to 1 zone as I need to break up the AHU zones, it works quite well.


You could place a space, and then use the space separator tool to redraw the boundaries of that space. That allows you to break up a room into multiple spaces regardless of where the bounding walls are in the linked architectural model. Does this help, or am I missing the exact nature of your problem?