Rounded Masonry Corners

[boofredlay]

What is the best way to go about representing rounded masonry corners in Revit?
Our firm is providing the drawings in DWG format rather than printing them. Therefore I need the corners as "Real" as possible; so I don't have to remove any masking etc. after export.

See attached picture for an example of what I want.
(Created in SketchUp).

Thanks for any help.

[ray salmon]

try using a void

or custom cmu blocks....

this seems very rare ... however apparently it does exist?

my immediate thots anyway..

r

[patricks]

I would say create a column with a rounded corner. Pull back the walls from the corner, place the column, and join geometry. If it's an architectural column, it will automatically join to the walls and take on the wall's construction.

[boofredlay]

Thanks Ray for the suggestions.

They are pretty common in schools around here. At least that is what we are using them for.
http://www.concretebuildingsupply.com/index.php?page_id=113
http://www.concretebuildingsupply.com/content/pdfs/8X8X16%20SBN.pdf

The void is not creating the desired result. See attached. The corner looks great in plan but not elevation.

Patrick, you might be on to it my friend. I will test that out now.
Thanks.

[jeffh]

You could also try to use the "paint bucket" tool to paint the CMU material back at the corner condition where you are using the void. This might fix in 3d and elevation view. did not take the time to test. :Oops:

[boofredlay]

Hmmm, the column idea is not working. Trying everything I know to get the walls not to join each other while joining with the columns. It just does not work.

Jeff, I tried that and cannot get the pattern to move horizontally on the curve. See image. I can move the pattern on the walls either side of the curve but for some reason the pattern on the curve is "locked".
The vertical lines I can make invisible with linework no problem.

Maybe I should use a pattern that shows just the horizontal scoring???

[boofredlay]

The void then using the paint bucket with a horizontal pattern is working best. Now, copying an in-place void from one corner to the other, I am having problems with. Do I really have to create a new void at each corner or is there a better way to copy it?

Thanks again.

P.S. would a vertical host sweep work better?
I may fiddle with that.

[ray salmon]

you should be able to copy, mirror etc voids or make groups if you want instances... at least that has worked on the likes of pier shapes and such.

however not a "void viceroy" not yet anyway..

r

[boofredlay]

True, I was trying to copy the void extrusion from one family to the next. Once I copied the extrusion inside that same family it worked fine. It is better that way as there is only one void family (per floor anyway).

Cheers guys. Thanks for all the help.

[ray salmon]

here is a quick extrusion with just fillet in it seems close
to the idea

[nsinha73]

What about this?
I Disallowed the wall Joins in the Ends.....that used in Place Family

[SUB]

draw the the corner with 2 walls meeting at 90 degree, then use the wall tool again and fillet it at whatever radius you need to

[SUB]

or better yet, when you use the wall tool, set the radius, then you will be able to draw with a rounded corner at every turn. Just too bad that the inner corner will be rounded too... and then you will get into the conversation of modeling efficiently or modeling the way it is built.

[patricks]

or better yet, when you use the wall tool, set the radius, then you will be able to draw with a rounded corner at every turn. Just too bad that the inner corner will be rounded too... and then you will get into the conversation of modeling efficiently or modeling the way it is built.

The fillet tool will not work for any radius smaller then probably the thickness of the wall. And it looks like the OP needs a radius of only 3-4".

OP did you try setting the wall ends to Disallow Join when trying the column method?

I just tried making a column w/ rounded corner, and it works great in plan, but I just can't get the surface pattern aligned with the walls.

[nsinha73]

draw the the corner with 2 walls meeting at 90 degree, then use the wall tool again and fillet it at whatever radius you need to

This is a good one....I like KShen's approach!! :-D

[patricks]

This is a good one....I like KShen's approach!! :-D

Again, the smallest radius you can make is one that puts the inside corner of the wall at a sharp corner and the outside corner with a radius. So if you have an 8" masonry wall, the smallest radius you can make is 4" when measuring to the wall's centerline, which makes an 8" radius at the outside corner and sharp corner at the inside. This may or may not be what the OP is looking for. It looks more like a 3"-4" radius at the outside corner in the original attached image.

[SUB]

Oops, didn't think about the radius limit problem.
Well, made 2 columns:
one inherits material from wall.
one with pattern assigned inside the family. This one is easier to match up the pattern


Anyone ever notice that an architectural column would inherit the property of a wall that's connected to it? I can't figure out how to control this on a composite wall. The column keeps on taking on the interior finish layer.

[wjspence]

Anyone ever notice that an architectural column would inherit the property of a wall that's connected to it? I can't figure out how to control this on a composite wall. The column keeps on taking on the interior finish layer.

Use a structural column to prevent it taking on the wall material.

[patricks]

Oops, didn't think about the radius limit problem.
Well, made 2 columns:
one inherits material from wall.
one with pattern assigned inside the family. This one is easier to match up the pattern


Anyone ever notice that an architectural column would inherit the property of a wall that's connected to it? I can't figure out how to control this on a composite wall. The column keeps on taking on the interior finish layer.

In the family editor, you can set the column to NOT automatically embed/join to the wall. It's under Settings > Family Categories & Parameters.

[SUB]

already try the automatically embed/join function inside the family. really would like to be able to control how a column inherits material, and don't want to mess with the layer priorities

don't know if it's just my office, but normally we have structural column embedded in an architectural column, so using structural column doesn't quite help...

wonder if this is deviating from the rounded corner discussion

[boofredlay]

Wow, sorry for not getting back to you guys. Thanks for all the suggestions.

The best method for this situation is the first suggested. I am using the void and cutting the wall corner. The radius is 1" so it is miniscule but needs to be correct. Plan view hardly shows it at all but the enlarged views work fine.
I then paint with a horizontal model hatch at 8" and I am right as rain.

This is a small addition to a school, 14+ classrooms and a media room. So, using the void did not take much time overall. And there are only a few views needing "painting".

Again, thanks all for the help. It is much appreciated.

[boofredlay]

OP did you try setting the wall ends to Disallow Join when trying the column method?

Yes I did and I could not get it to work right.

[sbrown]

I used the column method and it worked very well.

1. Make a column family with a radiused edge and material parameter
2. Select the blue dot on your walls on the corner and right click, chose dissallow join.
3. align the col family to the center of both walls.
4. Join geometry
5 set the material parameter of the col. to match that of the cmu.

[boofredlay]

That works visually but how does it export to dwg? Would you not get a "dirty" wall join upon export? Maybe not, I have not tried.
Remember that we are delivering this project via dwg and not printing.

This is good to know for the future however. Thanks.

[patricks]

I used the column method and it worked very well.

1. Make a column family with a radiused edge and material parameter
2. Select the blue dot on your walls on the corner and right click, chose dissallow join.
3. align the col family to the center of both walls.
4. Join geometry
5 set the material parameter of the col. to match that of the cmu.

When I tried that method, I never could get the surface pattern to work correctly. For some reason the CMU pattern was only showing up on the curved portion, and when I painted the flat portions, the pattern would not align with the walls, and I could not adjust it.

Actually that's what happened when the column automatically took on the adjacent wall materials. I did not try it with a material parameter for the column.

[sbrown]

the material parameter is what is needed to get the surf. pattern.
As for exporting to cad. The column on the wrong layer will be the least of your issues. Let us know how it goes. In my experience, exporting to cad for delievery will NOT work without a lot of cleanup.

[boofredlay]

Thanks Scott. The Void method is not producing any cleanup work at the corners so I am happy with that.

[dhurtubise]

I agree with scott. Much faster this way if you have several of those conditions. and you can easily go back and modify the radius if need be.
As far as exporting ... who still does that? ;-)

[patricks]

I agree with scott. Much faster this way if you have several of those conditions. and you can easily go back and modify the radius if need be.
As far as exporting ... who still does that? ;-)

Hardly ever at all anymore here. Now that all our consultants use or at least have Revit, I can just upload a model to our FTP, let them get it, and then they can export their own backgrounds if they insist on using CAD on that particular project. :p

[iandidesign]

Very illuminating topic. Nice range of solutions.

FYI, according to this blog post by Dwane Lindsey (http://revit-archcenter.blogspot.com/2008/01/model-fill-pattern-follow-up.html) the vertical surface lines of round walls can be moved by a clever use of the rotate tool. Might not work for columns as it requires an arc center.