In Place Family will not move

[mmiles]

I have built a in place family - generic model - which became a rather complicated (i.e. realistic) fireplace and chimney assembly. It was determined that I need to the move the family a few inches in one direction to align with an equality constrained grid line. Sounds simple, but for some reason when I tried to nudge, or move the family nothing happens.

I have gone into the family to edit (move) the entire assembly of solids and voids, but that yeilds errors and basically it does not move in edit mode without becoming all disjointed.

It seems like something is constraining it but I do not know what. How can I find, and break the constraints so I can nudge this family? :confused:

[dhurtubise]

If you drag the family (assuming it's not pinned) and there is constraints Revit will ask you to break them.

[aaronrumple]

It seems like something is constraining it but I do not know what. How can I find, and break the constraints so I can nudge this family? :confused:

Make it not an in-place family. Then it is easy to move. Edit the family. Then copy the geometry to the cliboard. Start a new generic family, and then paste the geometry into the new family. Once you'er happy with that, load it in the project and place it. It will be easy to move. Of course you can delete the in-place family.

[azmz3]

I have noticed that with mass elements or in-place families like that, sometimes they wont move in a certain direction, what I do is copy the object and erase the original one.

[mmiles]

cannot drag.
Edit mode will sends voids out of alignnment (i.e. they do not move same amount); and dimensions in many views get deleted; sometimes the whole family deletes, too.

I made it in-place due to other design details related to how roofs, and walls adjoin to it, but it seems like it would be a good idea to keep it more flexible. This family would benefit from being able to "edit in place" similar to AutoCAD.

copy paste into new family does similar things with voids. Why do they become "uncut" and why are they not in the original locations at least. many are in correct spot, but a few, key ones are off by a few inches. Any suggestion as to why this happens, how to minimize it, and/or how to determine how it is "off"?

[dhurtubise]

This is most likely due to the fact that mass are work-plane based, You would need to move theyre work-plane too

[mmiles]

hmmm.....several workplanes are actually named ref. planes in the in-place family itself. Will wouldn't those simply move by virtue of the objects associated to them? Many of the voids are using the solids as workplanes. And, other pieces of the family have workplanes that are related to grids in the project. Will that affect behavior? What is the recommendation at this point? Shall I make reference planes in the family and reassociate all voids to those instead of the geometry?

questions:
1.) in place family spans multiple levels - but copy paste into generic family doesn't seem to like that. I have tried to copy entire family but that creates some disarray. so, I tried selecting pieces at a time to cut/paste, but many objects only come in on the reference level in the family. How can I get the generic model to recognize the different heights?

2.) is selecting the in-place family ref planes the only way to get them into the generic family?

3.) if in-place family references 2nd, 3rd levels, will I need to make ref. planes at those locations to associate my solid and voids to (since I am trying to c/p into family)?

[aaronrumple]

Oh ya - you're screwed.

Sounds like there are way to many references to things outside the family. You'll probably have to move it by editing it and moving each element piece-by-piece.

You might try a couple of other things...
Group it and try to move the group. Or place a second group. I imaging that will fail too based on what you've said so far. but you might get lucky. "Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

You might also try grouping it and then converting the group to a linked file. Then edit the linked file and update the link. If that works you could bind it in....

An in-place family will always screw you over at some point in a project....

[mmiles]

Oh ya - you're screwed.

Sounds like there are way to many references to things outside the family. You'll probably have to move it by editing it and moving each element piece-by-piece.

You might try a couple of other things...
Group it and try to move the group. Or place a second group. I imaging that will fail too based on what you've said so far. but you might get lucky. "Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

You might also try grouping it and then converting the group to a linked file. Then edit the linked file and update the link. If that works you could bind it in....

An in-place family will always screw you over at some point in a project....

D'OH!

The grouping sounds intriguing. I've not done much with groups. the linked file would possibly give me the ability to modify the block using the contextural elements if I set up circular references.

I did determine I got much better results by c/p the ref.planes. But, though the solution I am using considering the circumstances is moving every solid and voids and ref planes selectively. It is taking a while, but it is working. I already gave up the notion of solving this problem in a few moves.

[azmz3]

At least by doing this, you know what not to do next time.

[ws]

I don't know if it is any help, but when I get myself stuck with in place families not moving like this, I edit the in place family and clicking on each object or void in turn, hit the 'Edit Work Plane' button at the top of the screen, then hit the 'Dissociate' button, then OK.

Once all the objects/voids are dissociated from their workplanes the in place family normally can be moved around freely.
but you have to dissociate all the objects and voids and sometimes they can take a bit of tracking down if you have built a complex family.

It probably isn't good Revit practice but when you are stuck it is one way out.

I get this a lot with 'one-off' existing chimneys on old houses -and then I decide to copy the design somewhere else ;) :roll:

[barrie.sharp]

I edit the in place family and clicking on each object or void in turn, hit the 'Edit Work Plane' button at the top of the screen, then hit the 'Dissociate' button, then OK.


Good advice for a fix!

As I understand it, if you have objects associated to external perpendicular planes, then it cannot satisfy those constraints.

e.g. if you have a level with a ref line on with a cube drawn on each, the family in plan will only move in parallel to the ref line. A further ref line perpendicualr to the first (a plane for each axis) will lock the family entirely in position because you have used all 3 dimensions. Locking to a level stops the family moving vertically or having a level offset. This makes sense. A family only has one level even if it contains additional planes and gets inserted onto a level in the project plus all ref planes are contained within the family.

To avoid problems:

do not lock onto levels
keep all ref planes inside the family and don't associate outside.
create parameters to reflect external changesor lock everthing you can to external refs and move the refs and not the inplace family.