Revit 2010 Group Functionality with Columns

[luke.s.johnson]

I thought I had encountered a one-off problem, or a strange error...my question to support was:
"For some reason, when I had some columns in a group, I could not go 1) edit group, 2) element properties of column 3) change height. The level of top and bottom height were 'grayed out'. These columns were not attached to anything.

I had to ungroup to edit the top and bottom height (change level of top and bottom)."

The response:
"Thank you for contacting Autodesk Support. As per what I understand is that you want to change the base offset and bottom offset in instance parameters. If so as of now if you need to edit any instance parameters you will need to detach the element from the group make necessary changes to the object and then reattach to the group."

Is this a Revit 2010 issue, or was it present in earlier versions? Quite annoying in any case.

[Wes Macaulay]

It's been present since v2008 and possibly earlier, if it's any consolation...

[luke.s.johnson]

I've been using Revit for quite a few years - I can't believe I haven't noticed this before!!!

[Rick Houle]

The top and bottom offsets are accessible within group, but the level associations are not...

[damon.sidel]

Sorry to dredge up an old post... this still seems to be a problem in 2012. Is it still a problem in 2013?

[MikeJarosz]

Over the years I have seen so much bad commentary about groups in this Forum that I almost never use them. Consequently, I couldn't tell you what's right or wrong with groups.

[patricks]

I think part of the issue with columns in groups is that columns always have a grid intersection associated with it in its instance properties. Every column is going to have a different value for that property, which can conflict with the fact that there are multiple instances of the group in different locations.

As a test I just created a column grid, placed 1 column and 1 footing, and grouped them together. I did get a warning message when I first created the group saying "A structural element will be detached from grid(s) due to inconsistent group membership." However that doesn't seem to affect group functionality. I can still place multiple instances of that group, and I can still edit the group and change the top or bottom column offsets, etc. Of course that change affects all instances of the group. If you need to have different offsets then those columns would have to be ungrouped, or made into a different group with different name.