Harping on the Revit UI...

[hand471037]

OK, look, I've been using Revit for years, taught it professionally for a reseller, rolled it out in several firms, and have pushed it really hard into new areas that people weren't using it for much yet. I also run Linux, OS X, learning Blender, Max, Python & Squeak, and am soon going to start buying CNC-driven tools. At one time I was considered by Autodesk to be one of the more experienced Revit folks out west. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm about as 'advanced' as they come in terms of a Revit user- and I hope to hell they *never* make an 'advanced' user interface for Revit, or seriously overhaul the Revit UI, or (god forbid) make it more like ADT/AutoCAD/MAX/VIZ's UI.

There are a lot of things, I agree, that could be better about the UI, but man, it's a great UI- the evidence of that is plain in the fact that Revit 7, and Revit 6, both have added an impressive amount of new features, yet I haven't had to change my daily workflow in the slightest, got up to full speed within a week of the new release, and am still just as efficient and effective, much more so than with any 3D modeling or CAD package I've ever used. I've never felt like the UI changes that have happened are wasting my time either, they have been welcome additions certainly, but never stumbling blocks or total brick walls.

So I say no to a complete UI overhaul, and hope that in time those people coming from a pure Autocad background, who sometimes find frustration with Revit's UI and wish for something more like AutoCAD, can eventually see the benefit within Revit's nice, clean, simple, and powerful UI... and I also hope that our friends at the factory do add some of our wishlist items to the UI in the near future, for the little UI tweaks in Revit 7 have already been a boon to production...

[Allen Lacy]

There are a lot of things, I agree, that could be better about the UI, but man, it's a great UI- the evidence of that is plain in the fact that Revit 7, and Revit 6, both have added an impressive amount of new features, yet I haven't had to change my daily workflow in the slightest, got up to full speed within a week of the new release, and am still just as efficient and effective, much more so than with any 3D modeling or CAD package I've ever used. I've never felt like the UI changes that have happened are wasting my time either, they have been welcome additions certainly, but never stumbling blocks or total brick walls.

So I say no to a complete UI overhaul, and hope that in time those people coming from a pure Autocad background, who sometimes find frustration with Revit's UI and wish for something more like AutoCAD, can eventually see the benefit within Revit's nice, clean, simple, and powerful UI... and I also hope that our friends at the factory do add some of our wishlist items to the UI in the near future, for the little UI tweaks in Revit 7 have already been a boon to production...
Well put Jeffrey, I agree 100%...

[Chad Smith]

While I agree that the UI is great for learning with, and is aimed with the new user in mind. It still needs an 'advanced' user interface as well. The existing one can stay, but maybe another UI option or shortcut keys to EVERYTHING is greatly needed.

I am a shortcut / keyboard nut and when I was using AutoCAD, I had it dialled so that I didn't have a single toolbar, or use for a menu on the screen at all, and also programmed the hell out of it. I would have used the Full-Screen command if it was reliable.

There is just no way a user can move around a screen with a mouse quicker that someone punching in commands from the keyboard. There has to be a better keyboard interface.

[rlwade.68242]

I completely agree with Chad. I hate not having hotkeys for everything.

[gregcashen]

...maybe another UI option

Please, God, NO!


...or shortcut keys to EVERYTHING is greatly needed.

Please, God, YES!

[hand471037]

There is just no way a user can move around a screen with a mouse quicker that someone punching in commands from the keyboard. There has to be a better keyboard interface.

I agree that everything should have a 'hook' for a keyboard shortcut. Having to click on the 'Edit' and 'filter' buttons a thousand times a day is a waste of time. But this wouldn't require a total UI overhaul, nor a command line... it would just require a new entry class/scheme within the KeyboardShortcuts.txt file to access items on the Options Bar. I have everything else in Revit tied to a keyboard shortcut... (Chad- you know you can tie down a lot more then Revit ships with to Keyboard shortcuts, right? I've got almost everything I use daily linked in...).

That's my point here, is that Revit does need some UI enhancements, but a total overhaul it does not. I punch in keyboard shortcuts all day long in Revit, it's just this last 10% I can't tie into a shortcut that bothers me. And that's why I don't feel a total overhaul or 'advanced mode' is a good idea... but that's just my opinion (that's bound to make someone mad...)

[MikeJarosz]

I've shown Revit reps (you know who you are!) how other programs have handled shortcuts. I agree that Revit can do better. An experienced user can go much faster with keyboard shortcuts than with all that mousing around.

[Chad Smith]

(Chad- you know you can tie down a lot more then Revit ships with to Keyboard shortcuts, right?
I've added the entire Menu and the SnapCodes. I don't know of anymore that can be done. We really need a OptionsCodes. :) if not already.

That's my point here, is that Revit does need some UI enhancements, but a total overhaul it does not. I punch in keyboard shortcuts all day long in Revit, it's just this last 10% I can't tie into a shortcut that bothers me.
Agreed. There are plenty of UI enhancements I can think of, but as long as I have total keyboard support, I'll be happy.

[hand471037]

I've added the entire Menu and the SnapCodes. I don't know of anymore that can be done. We really need a OptionsCodes.

Totally! I have no idea how they would do this, because the options bar is context aware and always changing, but at least to be able to hit something like 'O5' for the fifth option from the left, 'O3' for the third, or maybe something like 'Shift-F3' for the third one over, would totally rock, for you could hit them at will without having to mouse all the time... :)

[aaronrumple]

...how am I going to hit keys with my hand on the mouse and a cup of coffee in the other?

[hand471037]

...how am I going to hit keys with my hand on the mouse and a cup of coffee in the other?

Simple! mouse with your toes, or get voice recognition running... :D

[Arnel Aguel]

Revit's nice, clean, simple, and powerful UI...

This is one of the reasons why i love revit its simple and powerful UI. Please don't make it more complicated it can be improved without making it more complex. Just my two cents here.

[adegnan]

Simple! mouse with your toes, or get voice recognition running... :D
Or start drinking your coffee out of one of those two-beer can holder hats with the straw going into your mouth...

And then you are already set for the end of the day!!

[SCShell]

Hi there,
My thoughts are pretty simple since I never used any CAD programs before starting Revit a little over a year ago. (I did have a good knowledge of Corel and Windows however.)

I love how easy and intuitive Revit is now. It made the learning curve a snap! I use some keyboard shortcuts now; however, I think the Revit Developers are right on track. They seem to be more worried about making the program do what it is suppost to do for an Architect like me, than they are about making it a faster drafting program! The program's abilities far outway any time saved by overhauling the interface in my opinion. I can live with a slightly slower process, as long as the results are as OUTSTANDING as they are now, or even better, where they are heading.

Just my opinion
Steve Shell

[David Conant]

One thing we have observed many times is that after we have cut a 2 day process down to 60 minutes, we will get more complaints that we didn't cut out another 10 minutes than we would have if we had never improved the process to start with.
We designed Revit's overall UI very deliberately to keep it simple and predictable. This comes directly from my many years of experience teaching CAD and working as the CAD manager of a large team of architects. Although intense customization would provide some benefit, the benefit goes mostly to a few power users. The great majority of users is, in our opinion, better served by a straightforward and stable UI that can be learned easily and operated without "arcane" knowledge. This may be a bit frustrating to the power user group, but we think that it delivers greater overall productivity to the organizations that use Revit.
That said, we do know that there are many places where the UI can be better and we make improvements with every release. The fact that we have not yet implemented one of your desires does not mean that we don't understand it or it's potential value. As in all fields we struggle to get the most out of finite resources. Each improvement requires us to make a decision about where to deploy development resources and whether the proposed improvement delivers more value to the user than some functionality project that could be done instead.
Do continue making suggestions. We read them all. I think we have demonstrated over time that many of them get incorporated into the application.

[Haden]

Since I've always preferred to fly through keyboard input rather than "hunt-n-click" with a mouse, I have thought for years that the ideal input device combination would be a trackball-type device on the floor for your foot to navigate the cursor, and maybe a 2nd foot pedal for the actual mouse buttons, and then both hands can stay on the home keys on the keyboard. (Sorry Aaron, I guess you'll still just have to get one of Mr. Degnan's double-beer can hats for the coffee...) At any rate, I second the motion for expanded keyboard shortcuts, especially if they could shortcut into more specific actions.

I do look forward to fooling more with 7.0's new and improved Hide/Isolate tool, which I have not utilized as much as I should in its previous 6.1 form.

[muttlieb]

...I have thought for years that the ideal input device combination would be a trackball-type device on the floor for your foot to navigate the cursor, and maybe a 2nd foot pedal for the actual mouse buttons, and then both hands can stay on the home keys on the keyboard.

Here ya go. http://www.footmouse.com/

[rubidge]

I have just started trying to teach myself Revit, coming from an Autocad background.

It's not the change in the UI that is making the transition difficult, but rather what I percieve as a rather poor help system. This and the tutorials are my primary source as I do not have anyone else to learn from. My problems with the current help system are as follows:

Autocad-specific transition help. If I can do something in autocad, how do I do it in revit.
Family related help. What do each of the categories do, and why?
Autocad has an "Ask Me" search which is useful.


Lloyd Rubidge
Architect - Cape Town - South Africa

[hand471037]

Although intense customization would provide some benefit, the benefit goes mostly to a few power users.

Funny thing is we found the opposite to be true at an old firm I was at. We had a heavily customized AutoCAD environment, lots of code, and lots of special 'enhancements'. It was our own custom CAD system, to the point that it took a year to migrate from R14 to A2000. It was supposed to be this great thing, and it was something we spent a truly stupid amount of money on.

And, in the end, the 'power users' who knew AutoCAD very well could work just as fast, and sometimes faster when they weren't using the customization. Then as new versions came out the new features overlapped our customization and made it redundant (but we kept using it, instead of the new better way, because it's what our crew knew...). Also there was this huge overhead in training new people who were even familiar with AutoCAD to use our custom AutoCAD. So it really was loose-loose, I mean, we spent a ton of money keeping up this customization, which only really helped the users who weren't willing to learn the 'long way', but really held them all back when the 'long way' became the better way, made it harder to get people up to speed when they first joined the office, and in the end proved to not really help people work faster, power user or not. The 'customization' was just a money pit, a burden, one that I hear they are still flogging away at and migrating to 2004. It's really sad! They think they have so much 'value' in it because they have spent so much money on it by this point and have so many people there that don't know how to use 'normal' AutoCAD that they feel like they have to keep flogging that dead horse!