1st impression from Revit 2010...

I'm sorry, your post makes good sense. However here in the Netherlands we usually work as I described it. Autodesk's main audience is not America, it's the world. And the way I see it many projects worldwide have segregated disciplines working together. That goes double for us. We do have several disciplines working under one banner. But we also have many disciplines which we vary on a project-to-project basis. we make permit drawings, sales drawings, construction documents, but our design is limited to that. we have a business partners for our MEP work. We have several partners for our prefab floors and walls.

One user rarely unites all disciplines, but I do see and understand your pain. We don't work how Autodesk tells us we must, but Autodesk works the way we need and I don't think that we stand alone.

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Originally Posted by Chad Smith

No, we design entire projects. Houses are part of that project, as is the site, the building structure and it's services. You are subscribing to the same flawed philosophy that Autodesk does, that the project design process mjust be segregated to their own distinct divisions, i.e. Site, Building, Structure and Services.

At my last company, a single user documented the entire project, all with the exception of the electrical. So that meant they did the Site planning, Building, Structure, Hydraulics and Landscaping. Yes, just 1 user on a project, some of which were up to 30,000sqm.

So please don't tell me that we must work with external partners, because that is just B/S. Sure companies can and do work that way, but it is by no means the rule. This is why we get so pi$$ed when more links are created between Autodesk software, rather than implementing the tools into our chosen design software.

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ditto from here in Perth, australia... we too undertake a large portion of the work in house. yes larger projects involve consultants, but housing often is driven by sole practitioners.

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Originally Posted by clog boy

However here in the Netherlands we usually work as I described it.

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Now it makes sense why you're one of the few that likes this release.

Architects often cross over into other disciplines.

If there is a landscape architect. they might be using AutoCAD or another CAD program, so the Architect may need to model the site. I don’t know any Landscape Architects that use Civil 3D.

If the structural engineer is not using Revit, we may need to model the structure.

If the MEP engineer is not using Revit (which very few do) we might want to model the MEP.

Architects need all of the tools in all of the flavours of Revit, plus enhancements to existing functionality such as Site tools.

Architects also need improved and easy to use massing tools ( this explains why SketchUp is so popular), a 3d spline, a loft tool, the ability to customize curtain panels on non-orthogonal curtain systems, the ability to change pattern layouts.

I'm not a fan of Autodesk either and felt also robbed at previous releases, but these tools seems very powerful too me as the keynotes did for many others in release 9.

Hey there,
I just want to say that I really appreciate all of your posts, pro or con. Especially when they are being presented with cool and calm expertise by very experienced users who have been using Revit for many, many years and for whom I have truly, great respect for!

I, myself, have not downloaded RAC2010. I am in the middle of a ton of work (luckily) and don't really have the time to explore the new release; however, from my experience, one does not HAVE to switch to the latest version. I remember how happy I was with 8 and 8.1, so when 9 came out, with all of the memory leak issues etc, I never upgraded. Then, all I heard was that 9 and 9.1 had huge performance issues for some along with other issues. Now, I know that both 9 and 9.1 had huge improvements....I still avoided them until RAC2008....which I loved! And, I still survived without "the nines" and I actually had my best year ever if I remember correctly.

It is all just a choice. As long as I pay my subscription fees, I can decide for myself on whether to use the new 'flavor'. I hate paying for something I may not use; however, hopefully my fees are being used to fix what needs being fixed.

And for the record, I have 'played briefly' with the new UI; however, not enough to make any judgments. I just know that my brief encounter with it did not go very well. I felt like I did when I first fired up 4.5!

Thank you all who have posted and l look forward to this continuing discussion.
Steve

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Originally Posted by azmz3

Revit, from what I have seen the past few releases at least, has always somewhat of a ribbon functionality, it was just vertical, on the left and called "Design Bar" that is dynamic and changes with the function or command you are using. Having not much time in the new version, and just seeing videos and live demo's it actually seems very logical so far, but that may change when I actually start working in it.

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The design bar in previous releases was not "dynamic" like the current ribbon is. Some tools would either be available or grayed out, yes, but everything stayed in the same place until you clicked on a different design bar tab.

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Originally Posted by Phil Read

In conclusion? If Autodesk keeps telling their customers they're wrong for long enough they'll cease being customers at their earliest opportunity.
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I am going to have to disagree with Phil Read on this point here. Unless there is a major shift in the construction industry away from Autodesk products, then I dont think Autodesk is going to be losing customers. We will do like we do now, get the new release, complain about it, use it or not, and wait for the next release to see if anything changes, if nothing changes, we will go through the same cycle again.

Reading this forum, I have not seen so much negative attitude before until this release was close to release. It seems people want something to complain about really. I understand frustration of thinking you are not being heard, but I can almost bet that the changes in the new version were requested, by many people in the past. If you dont like the wishlist, dont use it, email Autodesk directly, have your reseller contact Autodesk, just find another way to make your voice heard.

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Originally Posted by azmz3

I am going to have to disagree with Phil Read on this point here. Unless there is a major shift in the construction industry away from Autodesk products, then I dont think Autodesk is going to be losing customers.

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Well - there's precedence for this. ADT gave way to Revit. But if ADSK doesn't listen (again) Revit will give way to something else because another technical vacuum and business opportunity will become viable.

It presently takes two years for new functionality to get scoped into Revit. So if you have a new idea today - it might be a while. ;)

Two years? That's nearly enough time to build a platform.

-Phil

Meanwhile, in another part of the country..............................

Someone is diving in, with an open mind, exploring the new GUI, working on a new project with the new massing tools, training their staff on the new version, etc..

( just like we have since we 1st started using Revit ( and in the past--AutoCad, ADT, Microstation, etc......)

Let's give the poor new release a bit of serious tire kicking--and maybe even some "drag racing" and then comment.

I'll still put Revit ( yep--even this according to the masses "horrible" release-no pun intended ) up against any other "BIM" software--and see the competition at the finish line!

cheers............................