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Thread: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

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    Member paubin's Avatar
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    Default New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    Hello:

    I am putting the finishing touches on the manuscript for Mastering Revit Architecture 2010. I use Windows Vista 32bit. I have little to no first-hand experience with the 64 bit version of Windows or Revit. My understanding is that 64 bit basically allows you to access more memory beyond the 32bit limit if 4 gig. I am not aware of any other benefits although with Revit that is pretty huge. So, the point of this post is this:

    I would like to include a paragraph or two in the preface that comments on 32 vs. 64 bit. I simply want to make some general statements about the benefits and/or issues. If anyone has 64bit Revit running on either XP or Vista, and would be willing to write up a quite summary on their thoughts/findings/impressions on it, I would appreciate it. My intention is to publish this paragraph in the Preface of my book either as-is or with minor editorial edits as appropriate. If you post something here, you are agreeing to give me permission to do so. In exchange, I will give you credit for the passage in the book.

    Thank you in advance.

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    Default Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    I wish I could comment a bit more on 2010 specifically, but my experiences are mostly towards the 2009 version when comparing the 32 vs 64 bit software. I've used 32 bit Revit 2009 with 32 bit OS, 32 bit Revit 2009 on a 64 bit OS, and the 64 bit Revit 2009 on a 64 bit OS. I've also been using 2010 on both 32 & 64 bit OS's since it came out. I've run the AU 2009 benchmark tests on all the 2009 versions, I'd love to try a 2010 version when it comes out. My comparisons have all been done on the same exact machine, with freshly installed (dual) OS's.

    The program, as it functions, is exactly the same. No difference to the user. In benchmark comparisons of Revit 2009, the 64 bit outshines the 32 bit by roughly 20% in total benchmark time on my specific machine(180s-222s). The 32 bit Revit 2009 performed equally in both OS versions. The 64 bit version seems to operate a bit smoother, even when only using 500Mb of memory. It's not a drastic difference, in fact, if one were to "blind" test the versions most people probably couldn't tell which is which. I don't switch between them often since the 64 bit is my main OS of choice.

    My machine:
    i7 920, 6Gb Ram, ATI 4850
    Vista 64, XP 32 (minor testing in Windows 7 beta 64 as well)

    Hope that helps! Love your blog!

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    Default Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    What follows is an initial paragraph that I am sure will need further work. But, it should get the "ball rolling" for you.

    Regards,

    WHG

    Windows like most all modern operating systems (OS’s) virtualizes its memory space to a hard disk. Real memory is usually insufficient to accommodate MPU cache, BIOS and data buffers, as well as the typically numerous active tasks and applications running concurrently under OS control. Segments of the latter are continually swapped between real memory and a hard disk when called upon to perform some function. When address space is expanded to a 64-bit domain, and in part populated with additional memory chips, then swapping activity will be significantly reduced and a concomitent decrease in processing time can be realized. Furthermore, processing algorithms can now be redesigned to work over much larger data matrices that in many instances, leads to increased algorithm efficiencies as well.

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    I could stop if I wanted to mruehr's Avatar
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    Default Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    I can only give limited experience from my Home Machine.

    You are able to open and work in Bigger Models
    You have more Virtual Memory even if you don't gain Speed it will not crash big Projects on limited Ram.
    You can print more Sheets at the Time (this is useful even in small Projects)
    Speed increase approx. 20% with very big Models some reported higher Gains
    With more Ram you can reduce Hard disk swapping.
    You can Export more Views to Acad at a time.
    With more Ram you get faster update on Groups.

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    Default Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    XP (x32) can only address 3GB of physical RAM, and any 32 bit architecture or OS can only address 2^32 of address locations, one bit each, resulting in 2^32 / 1024^2 MB (4096) of RAM. When working with a dual- or quadcore processor the domain is doubled or quadrupled, resulting in a potential 8GB or 16GB of addressable memory. The OS will have to support this. The two above comments (mruehr and whgeiger1) are an excellent breakdown of this.

    There are more benefits. Core2quad processors distribute the multiple threads (miltithreading) over all cores, even if a 32bit OS can only address one. In other words each Revit session can only use the full capacity of one core, even if that load is distributed. I have not tested this, but I think a 64 bit operating system would result in more efficient use of multiple cores with more open Revit sessions (if two sessions are opened, both can use the full capacity of one core). The available processing power increases from 25% with two projects open in one session, to 50% with two projects open in two simultaneous sessions. This is further supported with more available RAM.


    The breakdown is that the operating system better supports today's technology, increasing system performance and productivity. And even on a x32 version of XP, multithreading support can cut render times to 1/6th in relation to single core processors or multicore processors without multithreading support.

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    Default Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by paubin View Post
    Hello:

    I am putting the finishing touches on the manuscript for Mastering Revit Architecture 2010. I use Windows Vista 32bit. I have little to no first-hand experience with the 64 bit version of Windows or Revit. My understanding is that 64 bit basically allows you to access more memory beyond the 32bit limit if 4 gig. I am not aware of any other benefits although with Revit that is pretty huge. So, the point of this post is this:

    I would like to include a paragraph or two in the preface that comments on 32 vs. 64 bit. I simply want to make some general statements about the benefits and/or issues. If anyone has 64bit Revit running on either XP or Vista, and would be willing to write up a quite summary on their thoughts/findings/impressions on it, I would appreciate it. My intention is to publish this paragraph in the Preface of my book either as-is or with minor editorial edits as appropriate. If you post something here, you are agreeing to give me permission to do so. In exchange, I will give you credit for the passage in the book.

    Thank you in advance.

    Paul,

    The 64 bit version of Revit 2009 was still limited in the amount of ram it could access. The 2010 64 version does not have this limitation. Therefor, the 64 bit version can access more ram than its predecessors. This can permit the 64 bit version to work on larger models, convert larger models from an older version into the 2010 version, as well as provide some marginal speed increase in that more of the model can be in ram memory, without the application needing to place it into a paging file on a hard disk.

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    Cool Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    Paul,

    The 32 bit OS and 4 GB ram limitation results in a threshold of approximately 200MB as a maximum file size in the Revit 32 bit environment.

    The 64 bit OS and Revit software allow larger models to be created, saved
    and shared in a workset environment, as well as the ability to handle linked models from Revit Structure and MEP.

    A good rule of thumb for file size management is:

    4 GB Ram = 200 MB file size. Even with the "3G switch" enabled, only 3G are available
    for Revit 32 bit systems.

    8 GB Ram = 400 MB file size. 64 bit systems can easily handle and exceed this threshold.

    When working on large projects in Revit, and when files sizes exceed 200 MB,
    the 64 bit OS and software are required.

    Best practice experience from our real world projects demonstrates that 32 bit and 64 bit machines and software should not be mixed on projects larger than 200MB, as the 64 bit machines will be able to save and produce larger models, and the 32 bit machines will reach their memory limits and not be able to open or save the project.

    Hope this helps. Looking forward to the new book!

    Cheers.
    Last edited by cliff collins; 2009-05-15 at 07:45 PM.

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    Smile Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    Paul,

    Good luck on the new book. I am sure it will be great!.

    I just wanted to add this to what everyone else said. We started a project in R2009 before 64-bit Revit was released.

    The project was a rather large 250,000 Rentable (450,000 Gross) SF Historical Renovation project in Downtown Dallas, consisting of 4 separate buildings on the same peice of land, converting existing Office Space and some historical space to Apartment/lofts. We also added a large ramp structure on the side of one of the buildings so that we could park the first 5 levels of that building and one of the adjacent buildings. Scope also included a new amenity area, parking, and some other site modifications.

    We decided, due to the limitations of 32 bit, to split each building up into it's own file. However, we of course wanted all of the benefits that Revit offers for views, as well as annotating, so we had to set up all the views to be "by linked view" etc. It was a royal pain! Don't get me wrong, I love Revit, but had I known that 3 months later, 64 bit would have come out, we would have just put everything in one file. We had 69 unit types and garage plans, etc. that we had to do this "by linked view."

    In summary, because of this, I think we could have saved about 30% production time had we had everything in one file from the beginning, which 32-bit originally limited us from doing efficiently. At the end of the project, we had 5 Revit files, 4 individual buildings, and 1 for the site, Ramp structure, amenity area, etc and all of the associated views and sheets for the whole project. MEP was in Revit as well.

    The whole CD set was about 400 sheets 30x42, and the architectural files averaged about 90 MB per file, totaling about 450 MB. At the end of the project, I was begging my boss to add another 8 GB of RAM to the 8 GB I already had, which was only possible with 64-bit, plus I upgraded the R2009 project to R2010 a month before issues 100% CDs to get the better performance that was aluded to above.

    Sorry that was so long, but hopefully that helps to illustrate what the others were talking about.

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    Default Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    Hello everyone:

    Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like what I have heard is correct and the primary benefit is more RAM which means larger files can be opened and in some cases more quickly. So, what doesn't work well in 64bit? Are there driver issues? or applications that don't run? In recommending that people consider 64 bit for Revit, should I warn them about anything? Thanks again.

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    Default Re: New a Paragraph on 64 bit

    I've been using XP64 since June 2008 and I haven't had the slightest Revit related issues. I have only found a few applications that have a hard time with it, Neat Receipts is one. Their scanner driver doesn't support XP64. They emailed me to be part of their beta but then I never heard from them again. Otherwise I wouldn't know I was using anything special. It is quite nice to see 8 gb of ram in Worksharing Monitor's Performance Monitor.

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