See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 55

Thread: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    2008-08
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    42
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    new thought: My 'smart tags' can even be dynamic so that a single tag can have multiple Types of attribute defintions to choose from, i.e. different size windows.

    And when placing a Tag it can also activate, if desired, a Schedule Editor properties interface where you immediately see the layout of the schedule with fields for entering specific values under approprate column heading, or be able to add heading, or be able to match properities from a row [another Tagged entitiy] to another row, etc....

    And since its bi-directional then making a change in the Schedule changes the Tag attributes in the drawing, so if you have multiple items of identical attributes you can copy a placed tagged to use for all the other instances in the drawing with similar attributes-- only you would use a 'copy similar' type of function so the TAG number would change in series accordingly. IF its a dynamic Tag and you add a new Type attribute in the Schedle Editor, or alter some aspect of an existing defined Type already in the Schedule/drawing, i.e. make a new size, then this gets added to the Tag definition both in the drawing and /or in the root database for the Tag where it is stored in a Library, if you wish.

    A Tag library can be loaded as a palette...where 'smart tags' live ready to be deployed per project.
    Last edited by daniel.191403; 2009-07-29 at 03:34 AM.

  2. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    2008-08
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    42
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    irneb -- question about what version of Excel you are using and if you know if Excel 2003 & 2007 are both supported in AC 2008 & 2010?? Thanks. d.

  3. #33
    Certifiable AUGI Addict
    Join Date
    2015-11
    Location
    Jo'burg SA
    Posts
    4,512
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    Yes & no ... your "smart tag" idea sounds like you want (e.g.) a field inside an attribute of the tag block, linking to a dynamic property of (say) the actual door block. E.g. a field stating the structural opening width, so you can display this in a column on the schedule. While at present it works this one-way ... it doesn't work backwards (i.e. changing the value in the schedule may update the attribute if you've got it setup correctly, but it's not going to update the door block & the field link is broken & lost).

    Your idea sounds a hell of a lot like the Revit tags, where the door family has all the info regarding that particular door type. Then placing a reference tag is simply displaying selected values from the door. The schedule actually links with the door, not the tag.

    As for my taking Excel into ACad, usually I do that using a linked table. But sometimes I simply leave the Excel Schedule & issue that ... sometimes it's more practical on site to have a booklet instead of large sheets. At present my LISP code is saving the attribute values from my door tags to a text file, the Excel schedule loads these automatically (every time it opens or I press F9 for recalc). Manipulation of these is then possible in Excel (as is shown), but also data consolidation like counting numbers of particular door types (I don't need to make another link, all I do is create another table in Excel which uses the COUNTIF function ... with any new data that table is updated as well).

    I'm using Excel 2007, but AC2008 (at least) works with both 2003 & 7. I'd actually prefer to use Open Office Calc instead, but AC doesn't link to or from that (except using OLE). Someone's already created a wish for that one as well (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=88884)

    What I mean by the driver is that ADesk do not create anything like Data Extraction at all. They allow other progs (like Excel) to use the driver to pull and push data out & into a DWG file. This way they don't need to modify anything for someone to use some weird program (e.g. the OOoCalc or when M$'s Office 2010 comes out and it doesn't work the same anymore) since all they do is create a standard way for that program to link to drawings. In this way I'd do away with my intermediate CSV text file, then link directly from Excel (or preferably OOoCalc) to the various Layout DWG's extracting the data from these blocks. Then if this driver allows writing as well, I could even change the values in the spreadsheet & click the post button to update the blocks in the DWG. That would make for bi-directional editing.

    I don't think it would be possible to get something like Revit's scheduling this way ... what I mean is the live link would not happen (even with current DE in AC only). E.g. in Revit you could tile the windows to display both the plan & the schedule. Adding a door on plan immediately updates the schedule, modifying a value in the schedule immediately updates the plan ... no update link button necessary. But that's because of the way Revit works, ACad can't do that. It'll make any complex drawing become so slow that you can't work with it - it's exactly what ACA is trying to do and fails because it works too slow.

    Here's why I'm saying it's in ADesks interests to make an ODBC driver instead of wasting their time in recreating a database queriying tool (which is DE) and another built in spreadsheet (table calculations and manipulations). All they need, they've already got the Linked Table from Excel which works fine. They will always get someone asking: "But I can do this in Excel, why not in a table?" Which means they're going to end up having a recreate clone of Excel built into ACad just for table editing, and later they're going to have a clone of Access built in just for Data Extraction. These 2 programs are huge in their own right, now to add them into ACad would simply bloat an already fat program and make it so much more slow and cumbersome.

    With this driver they can "provide" their users with all the functionality of Excel, Access, OOoCalc, OOoBase, Lotus Symphony, Gnumeric, QuattroPro, Pradox, Resolver One, etc. These are different spreadsheet and database programs, each with their own featureset. So the user chooses which one of those he/she wants and it works with his/her DWG files ... no further need for ADesk (or a 3rd party) to make something specially for just the one program ... all of them can use ODBC. Some of them (like Excel, Access, QuattroPro & Paradox) even have ODBC drivers of their own exactly for this type of purpose ... i.e. instead of bloating the program with features from another, provide a link between the 2's data.

  4. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    2008-08
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    42
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    I will need to respond in two parts…First:

    You said, "Yes & no ... your "smart tag" idea sounds like you want (e.g.) a field inside an attribute of the tag block, linking to a dynamic property of (say) the actual door block….”

    Actually no, this is not what I’ve been saying. With my idea of ‘Smart Tags’ the tag is independent from the ‘door block’ and does not rely on DE from the door block with its attached attributes. The DE happens only from the Tag. The Tags intelligence is simply within the Tag attribute, which describes the entity the Tag is placed near as we normally do. A Dynamic Tag simply means that you have a list of Types built into the Tag which describe variations of what is being tagged. This is just for an added level of ease of use with one Tag having multiple Types of attribute definitions in a list format…just like dynamic blocks commonly do [i.e. standard AC Dynamic Blocks of a wood framing in section, it can be 2x4, 2x6, 2x8..etc…on the fly you select which one you want to use].

    So, there is no intelligent connection between the ‘door block’ [or whatever object is being tagged] and the Tag itself. If the door block changes, the Tag attribute doesn’t change. At that point you would need to edit the Tag or if it’s a Dynamic Tag then just select the Type which matches the changes to the door block, if its part of the Type list in the Tag already.

    This is the key and critical point and why my idea is not replicating a Revit data pipline exactly but is only analgoues to its automated process which is bi-directional with the Schedule.

    The whole Achilles heal in wanting to replicate a BIM data flow pipeline into a 2D process in AC, as you most surely already know, is that in BIM the graphics & the Data are just different notations, if you will, of the same entity….one is an alphanumeric representation and the other is graphical representation in model form, as a generally point of fact.

    So how can you get a Revit like data pipeline which is automatic, bi-directional, and internal to AC if you don’t have Data rich data driven geometry in AC, at least not at the level of BIM?

    You remove the geometry from the data pipeline and focus on the Tag itself.

    Step 1: You draw as you normally would, using blocks or dumb lines or whatever.

    Step 2: When you are ready to develop drawings into CD type docs, which can occur at any time during the design process, you go into the drawings and start to place ‘Smart Tags’ where you need to callout stuff and have it be referenced to other drawings and on a Schedule. But this doesn’t establish a data link to the objects being tagged, only a visual link just like we already do in normal CD production.

    Step 3: Placing the Smart Tag in the drawing also initiates the Schedule creation process in the background – and this is what I mean when I say I want a similar automated process like Revit & ADT. It’s different but it shares this aspect of automation. It’s not trying to be a BIM process, its trying to maximize productivity with in the AC paradigm and with current AC root functionality.

    And as I said you can have preloaded data rich Smart Tags in much the same way as we do with Blocks with their Attributes. All that said, you can still use Blocks within this work flow with DE info when needed, but you are not bound to this process; with this added feature of Smart Tags to accomplish much of the same kind of Scheduling work we typically do, the process of Schedule creation occurs at the same time. Perhaps a way to understand this is that this is not a graphics driven process, but an annotation driven process. I beieve this can be achieved via Action scripts...the action of selcting and place a Smart Tag in a drawing fires the Schedule creation trigger and viola a Schedule in initiated....i guess this is how it works in Revit...?

    That said, per my last post, with items that don't typcically get tagged, elect/plumbing etc...these are drawn as symbles which are both a block & Smart Tag and so when placing them in a drawing it initiates the same data pipline for automatic Schedule creation.

    The whole idea is about creating a data pipeline in a 2D environment where Schedule creation happens automatically and is kept up to date as changes occur. We can not escape a level of editing requirements in AC -- as it is not going to become BIM – we will continue to edit entities whether in the block, dumb Ines, attributes, Schedule linkage, Excel extraction, whatever…that just the nature of the limits of AC. But there are ways to improve this workflow for productivity gains.

    And if Schedules can be created automatically that would be genius!!

    Part 2 of my response to your very good argument will come later…

    Cheers, d
    Last edited by daniel.191403; 2009-07-29 at 08:15 AM.

  5. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    2008-08
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    42
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    Part two--

    You wrote, “…At present my LISP code is saving the attribute values from my door tags to a text file….”

    This sounds pretty much like my Smart Tag idea; only all of this is internal to AC and so the data is sent down the pipeline and into the Schedule creator in AC.

    You wrote, ".. What I mean by the driver is that ADesk do not create anything like Data Extraction at all. They allow other progs (like Excel) to use the driver to pull and push data out & into a DWG file. This way they don't need to modify anything for someone to use some weird program (e.g. the OOoCalc or when M$'s Office 2010 comes out and it doesn't work the same anymore) since all they do is create a standard way for that program to link to drawings."

    This is a pretty strong argument!!

    You wrote, ".. In this way I'd do away with my intermediate CSV text file, then link directly from Excel (or preferably OOoCalc) to the various Layout DWG's extracting the data from these blocks. Then if this driver allows writing as well, I could even change the values in the spreadsheet & click the post button to update the blocks in the DWG. That would make for bi-directional editing.”

    Sounds great!!

    You wrote, “…Adding a door on plan immediately updates the schedule, modifying a value in the schedule immediately updates the plan ... no update link button necessary. But that's because of the way Revit works, ACad can't do that. It'll make any complex drawing become so slow that you can't work with it - it's exactly what ACA is trying to do and fails because it works too slow….”

    Hopefully you now understand that my idea is not quite this….just analogous to it!

    You wrote, “…Which means they're going to end up having a recreate clone of Excel built into ACad just for table editing, and later they're going to have a clone of Access built in just for Data Extraction. These 2 programs are huge in their own right, now to add them into ACad would simply bloat an already fat program and make it so much more slow and cumbersome.”

    Great argument.

    Except I would never suggest this order of Excel functionality be cloned in AC. There is no need for a full bodied Excel in AC. If you need that high level of functionality then linking it perfect.

    Vectorworks has a very robust internal spreadsheet functionality which serves the purpose of Scheduling and Bill of Materials quite well and has many other uses for calculating all sorts of stuff including heat loads & water volume capture calcs off roofs, etc. Its called Worksheets. And because it runs formulas just as Excel it is bascially a spreedsheet program in Vectorworks; and it works both at the level of BIM and with a 2D data workflow.

    I’m just saying the same functionality can be in AC too now that the root functionality is already in place.

    d.

  6. #36
    Administrator Opie's Avatar
    Join Date
    2002-01
    Location
    jUSt Here (a lot)
    Posts
    9,096
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    I'll briefly comment on this discussion about some of the items brought up.

    Vectorworks is developed (per their web site) as an integrated 2D/3D design software for architecture, landscaping, and entertainment industries.

    Revit is not built on the code base of AutoCAD. Revit was developed by a third party as a stand alone product. Autodesk bought them out.

    ADT was originaly developed as an add on to AutoCAD by a third party, Softdesk for the architectural industry. Autodesk bought them out and incorporated their add on into a vertical application onto AutoCAD.

    And to answer your question, would I use the schedule system you are proposing if it was included in AutoCAD? Probably not. It does not fit into my industries drawing needs. Most of your argument for this functionality is coming from an architectural necessity. Which not all AutoCAD users work in that field.

    If the functionality you require to do your job is not provided in the product you are using, you would need to find someone that has developed this functionality or have it developed for you. There are many programs out there for AutoCAD and there are many more coming to fill the needs of AutoCAD users. You just have to find the right product.

    BTW, if you have not already done so, you can submit a wish to AUGI's AutoCAD Wish List. It will be reviewed by a talented group of AutoCAD users. If it meets the necessary criteria, I'm sure it will be placed on the next ballot.
    If you have a technical question, please find the appropriate forum and ask it there.
    You will get a quicker response from your fellow AUGI members than if you sent it to me via a PM or email.
    jUSt

  7. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    2008-08
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    42
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    Opie Opie Opie….thanks for taking the time to comment. I know the thread is long and probably not worth the time for you to read it all and digest it, but all of your points have been covered and ferreted out already.

    The question of verticality is a mute point as has been discussed above.
    The question of the origins of Add-on functionality or finding others to provide this additional functionality is a mute point too because it is answering for Autodesk and so is only conjecture. However, if you work for Autodesk and wish to be their spokesmen on this subject then please say so.

    The fact that you would not use this kind of functionality leads to some questions, however.

    1) Do you understand the functionality as it has been discussed here?
    2) Why do you need to say you wouldn’t use it if you know you wouldn’t use it? What is the intention behind this statement?
    3) If it doesn’t fit into your industry, okay cool, why does that matter in the context of this conversation if AC is used in many industries? Does this mean you are only interested in seeing AC used in your industry? Personally based on how AC has been improved and made more robust over the years I am not so cynical to assume Autodesk doesn't have an interest in continuing to improving it....and my idea is very much in sync with the kinds of improvements AC has been given over the years.

    The suggestion which you’ve used which basically say that “if you want that kind of functionality then choose a program that has it” is so overly simplistic that it falls short of having any real value in a conversation like this.

    It presupposes that this singular functionality is so dominating of a need that all other virtues or shortcoming of this or other software options should be dismissed right away if this singular functionality is or is not provided. No one really thinks in such singular ways; unless they are choosing one paradigm over another; like BIM vs. 2D/3D Cad or some other completely different sets of paradigm options.

    Right now we are having a more important conversation about the current Table/DE/Excel linkage functionality in AC and my proposed functionality which will indeed be viable to many many many users who do architectural work. Sorry that does not include you.

    So let’s keep the conversation positively focused on the subject at hand; which is a discussion of ways to improve AC with some kind of auto scheduling feature or an improvement to the pipeline between AC and some other external spreedsheet program, like Excel.

    Yes, a wish has been posted....and perhaps this dialogue could contribute to that as well.

    cheers, daniel
    Last edited by daniel.191403; 2009-07-29 at 11:11 PM.

  8. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    2008-08
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    42
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    IRNEB-- thought you might find this interesting:
    http://www.thecadgeek.com/blog/2008/...s-using-excel/

    and be sure to read the comments section too!!
    Last edited by daniel.191403; 2009-07-30 at 03:47 AM.

  9. #39
    Administrator Opie's Avatar
    Join Date
    2002-01
    Location
    jUSt Here (a lot)
    Posts
    9,096
    Login to Give a bone
    1

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.191403 View Post
    1) Do you understand the functionality as it has been discussed here?
    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.191403 View Post
    Quite clearly.
    2) Why do you need to say you wouldn’t use it if you know you wouldn’t use it? What is the intention behind this statement?
    Because you repeatedly asked other commenters to "your" topic to answer that question. I chose to answer the question "Would I use it if it was available?"
    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.191403 View Post
    3) If it doesn’t fit into your industry, okay cool, why does that matter in the context of this conversation if AC is used in many industries? Does this mean you are only interested in seeing AC used in your industry? Personally based on how AC has been improved and made more robust over the years I am not so cynical to assume Autodesk doesn't have an interest in continuing to improving it....and my idea is very much in sync with the kinds of improvements AC has been given over the years.
    Have all of their new improvements to AutoCAD been completely fleshed out? Sheet Set Manager continues to be limited in scope, which there is an 3PD add-on for that. Dynamic Blocks are a great improvement, however they are still a 2D option.

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.191403 View Post
    The suggestion which you’ve used which basically say that “if you want that kind of functionality then choose a program that has it” is so overly simplistic that it falls short of having any real value in a conversation like this.
    No. I'm telling you it would probably be easier at this time to find someone to code the functionality you request. You seem to not want to go that route due to additional costs associated with having it developed. You would rather Autodesk develop this fully into their base AutoCAD package for no additional cost to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.191403 View Post
    It presupposes that this singular functionality is so dominating of a need that all other virtues or shortcoming of this or other software options should be dismissed right away if this singular functionality is or is not provided. No one really thinks in such singular ways; unless they are choosing one paradigm over another; like BIM vs. 2D/3D Cad or some other completely different sets of paradigm options.
    No. There are many add-ons for AutoCAD. Possibly you just have not found that right solution you seek.

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.191403 View Post
    Right now we are having a more important conversation about the current Table/DE/Excel linkage functionality in AC and my proposed functionality which will indeed be viable to many many many users who do architectural work. Sorry that does not include you.

    So let’s keep the conversation positively focused on the subject at hand; which is a discussion of ways to improve AC with some kind of auto scheduling feature or an improvement to the pipeline between AC and some other external spreedsheet program, like Excel.

    Yes, a wish has been posted....and perhaps this dialogue could contribute to that as well.

    cheers, daniel
    Excuse me for clarifying some points which you choose not to address. Your focus in this discussion is squarely on using AutoCAD as a full architectural package with all of your examples coming from other architectural packages or programs. Therefore, I will stop following this thread and leave you to your "important" discussion. It's just not worth it.
    If you have a technical question, please find the appropriate forum and ask it there.
    You will get a quicker response from your fellow AUGI members than if you sent it to me via a PM or email.
    jUSt

  10. #40
    Certifiable AUGI Addict
    Join Date
    2015-11
    Location
    Jo'burg SA
    Posts
    4,512
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Creating Schedules in AutoCad

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.191403 View Post
    IRNEB-- thought you might find this interesting:
    http://www.thecadgeek.com/blog/2008/...s-using-excel/

    and be sure to read the comments section too!!
    Yep, thanks knew that one too, does close to what I've already got.

    I think Opie's correct, you sound as if you want ADesk to do all this for you with no extra cost ... please see my previous posts. The major reason I still like ACad is its extendability, not its completeness (it's not complete by a long shot). But that's where 3rd Party Addons, and AutoDesk combined packages (let's cal it that instead of verticals, to please your sense of semantics) comes into play ... that is where all this "wonderfull" featuresets already exist, is in the process of being created, or can be created.

    Youn see ADesk don't need to do it all, that's why you get 3rd Parties creating add-ons. That's why they're so popular.

    Anyway, this discussion's also tiring me out ... I'm really tired of saying the same thing. Ask ADesk if they'll do these for you ... it doesn't help asking me: the closest I've ever come to Adesk is sending them money through my reseller for their product.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. MP318-4: Creating Electrical Panel Schedules in AutoCAD MEP
    By Autodesk University in forum MEP Design and Engineering
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2014-12-01, 03:38 AM
  2. Creating Schedules
    By mwalker.87963 in forum Revit MEP - General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2009-11-17, 08:24 PM
  3. Creating a new category in schedules
    By Imwezal in forum Revit MEP - General
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 2009-10-14, 05:24 PM
  4. Creating lintel schedules
    By khanson-3b in forum Revit Structure - General
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 2007-02-26, 02:02 PM
  5. Creating schedules
    By pangell in forum ACA General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2005-12-07, 05:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •