Project Coordinates, Shared Coordinates, and the new Survey Point

[Andre Baros]

Reviving this thread again. Plan issue.
I have a stream of consultant files arriving view dwg. Always at the same origin (0,0,0) set to a point on the survey. My Revit file was draw using a different "startup location". I'm at a point in the project where I would like to sort this out before we start moving too far into the drawings and am even considering simply setting up a new file.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't matter where I place the "Project Base Point" or "Survey Point" if I insert a dwg or revit file using "origin to origin" they always come in at the "startup location". Similarly, if I set up a new Revit file with the "startup location" aligned to the origin in the survey and consultant files, I cannot copy and past from the old project to the new using "paste aligned" because it ignores the "Project Base Point" and "Survey Point" and pastes at the "startup location". Does this sound right or am I missing something?

[tobias.fasth]

Reviving this thread again. Plan issue.
I have a stream of consultant files arriving view dwg. Always at the same origin (0,0,0) set to a point on the survey. My Revit file was draw using a different "startup location". I'm at a point in the project where I would like to sort this out before we start moving too far into the drawings and am even considering simply setting up a new file.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't matter where I place the "Project Base Point" or "Survey Point" if I insert a dwg or revit file using "origin to origin" they always come in at the "startup location". Similarly, if I set up a new Revit file with the "startup location" aligned to the origin in the survey and consultant files, I cannot copy and past from the old project to the new using "paste aligned" because it ignores the "Project Base Point" and "Survey Point" and pastes at the "startup location". Does this sound right or am I missing something?

Andre,
I have the same problem as you describe. Have you found an answer or a way to treat this problem?

/tobias

[Andre Baros]

No resolution, teh Project Base Point and Survey Point are red herrings.

[dbaldacchino]

Andre, sorry for the late reply.

The Startup Location is the internal project origin. It's equivalent to the WCS Origin in a dwg....it's fixed. Based on that origin and coordinate system, you can then have multiple locations in the form of shared coordinate systems with their own origin and orientations. So if you want to move your linked files around, you have to link them by Shared Coordinates and not by Origin to Origin as that will always land them a the same spot. Does that answer your question?

[col9000]

Hi,

Hopefully someone will check this thread still... it's a bit old but definitely the most informative I've found about topography. Anyway, I've a problem that seems like it could be a common occurrence but I can't find the info to solve it. I've attached an image which should help...

At some point the model I'm working on was physically moved upwards (using the move tool), which didn't seem to be a problem until I started making a toposurface. You can see from the attached image the locations of the project base point and the shared base point (the survey point), and right at the bottom the elevation of the Startup Location. I had assumed that the topo points (the ones you manually enter) and the contour labels would relate to the shared base point or the project base point.... but instead they seem to relate to the Startup Location, which is useless to me (and also means I have to get the calculator out every time I want to place a topo point).

Is there any way I can fix this? I'd like to be able to show contour labels on my plans. I tried moving the model down again but it's no longer possible. Using the "relocate project" tool doesn't help as this does not move the model in relation to the Startup Location.

(While trying to figure this out, I've also come across other things that relate to the Startup Location level, such as the eye elevation and target elevation in a perspective view)

Thanks in advance

Colin

[dbaldacchino]

Colin, first off, both the Project Base Point and Survey Base point report coordinatesoff the shared coordinate grid system and not the internal fixed coordinate system....just to clarify.

You're right, the topo points are relative to the internal fixed coordinate system and there's not really anything you can do about it. To make it easier to edit, you can lower the toposurface back to the startup location at some convenient elevation, make your edits, and once finished, move it back up.

As to the labels, you can set some options in the Type Properties to change the reported elevations. So you can display values By Shared Coordinates or Relative too. Hope this helps!

[ppirtle]

For anyone who wants to see this in a more graphic form, feel free to download this PDF that I created a few months ago:

ftp://mka.com/outbox/Revit Shared Coordinates.pdf

It's a 14Mb PDF, but might be helpful. Of course, if you see any glaring errors, I welcome your comments.

[Ning Zhou]

ftp://mka.com/outbox/Revit Shared Coordinates.pdf

that's great illustration! Autodesk should buy this pdf from you.
my personal view is that internal / fixed coordinate system causing all confusions, i don't remember if AutoCAD (oops, sorry) using similar approach, my impression is that you can move default UCS origin around which is kind of internal coordinate system? don't laugh at me as i didn't use it for quite some time.

[ppirtle]

Thanks for the compliment. I made that up trying to figure out how the whole thing worked, but from the problems we have in-house, I'm not 100% sure that's the way it's *supposed* to be understood and used.

I think our biggest problems may not be due to misunderstanding the concept, but are instead due to the fact that our clients are working far from 0,0. For example, we'll resort to typing in a coordinate, and when we hit <Enter>, the value changes. Not by much--maybe a couple of millimeters--but it will...not...retain the correct values.

In my opinion, that's a major BUG!

[jarkko.rauvanlahti]

Old thread, but we seem to come multiple times back with the same questions about coordinates and exporting Revit files to other software. With the Revit coordinate system I always feel puzzeled. And this new Project Base Point seems to add one more level to difficulty. I'm great favor of simplyfying matters and as a simple person like to ask simple questions. Could it be possible to just make this hidden internal coordinate system:

1. visible - exporting to cad is real pain when you have now clue why the whole project went where it did.. Also how you can be sure you don't cross the 1 mile barrier if you don't know where it is

2. changeable - sometimes it is essential later to set project zero -coordinate to appropriate place from where everything is measured. (since changing the coordinates would affect to whole building it should be consired with the same severity as moving the real building)

3. to have tool to measure distance/coordinates from Internal Base Point

With the above changes we then would only need tools to specify true world coordinate and angle at certain point. And Revit allready has those..