Alternative for ACA?

[antti.ahlgren]

Hello
(long message, sorry..)
I´m working currently on a pretty big retail project (cross area over 50 000m2) and I´ve been using ACA to do the designs (I´m an architect). The project is a BIM project. I started working with ACA 2008 and during the project I have been upgrading the program first to 2009 (fine) and then to 2010. At this point I got a new computer with the following specs:
Windows Vista 64
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz 2.67 GHz
RAM 12Gt
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295
When I got the new computer with ACA 2010 the problems started (there were some with 2008 and 2009 but not this much): crashing, slowing down, etc. I´ve sent the error codes to Autodesk but haven´t got any replies. Luckly (or not...) because of the situation in economy the project was delayed few months and now I have time to think what I´m gonna do with the program. I´ve googled possible solutions but none of them have helped me so far (reinstall, updates). Some say the Vista is the problem, some say the videocard, some say it´s the 64kbit system etc etc.

So now I´ve come to the point that I want to try an other program. In our office we have licenses for ArchiCAD, Allplan and Revit (one Allplan user, two ArchiCAD users and zero Revit users. ACA is used mainly but only 2D drawings (no BIM)). If you have used/are using these programs and also have some experiences on ACA, could you give me pros and cons of them compared to ACA? My method of working is the following (short version..):
1. I use spaceobjects to do the preliminary designs (no walls etc are drawn at this point). Based on this information I get areas and volumes which are useful for the customer. Also some 2D lines are used to define some details for the customer
2. I use outer walls (also windows, doors) and roofs to create the shape/form and the architecture of the building. This exterior model is used for the 3D visualizations
3. At this point usually the contruction engineer comes in picture and with him/her I go thru possible construction alternatives. I also start to add interior walls, doors etc
4. When the model is finished I create/project the 2D drawings (plans, sections,..) needed from the model and add information that´s needed (dimensions, texts etc) on the 2D designs.

Some things that I want from the program is:
- using and editing the spaceobjects is easy (actually this is good in ACA). Also would be nice if the walls could be created from the spaceobjects (possible in ACA but not easy)
- moving inside a BIG model (over 50 000m2) with realistic view on (3Dorbit) is easy and fluent (not in ACA, really slow at least in my case..)
- in ACA it´s really frustrating that it´s possible to create too accurate dimensions - sometimes this causes that e.g. a wall seems to be on top of a module but when you zoom really close it´s 0.054mm off the module. I know about the snaps etc but honestly, do they work ok?
- 2D drawing is possible (this is really good in ACA)
- the program should work so that I don´t need to spend a week trying to figure out why some command crashes the program when the answer is that I should have had 2 in the uwhwuiewiu-variable instead of 3. So simplicity: do I really need 2534 variables to design and model a building?

So, pros and cons of ArchiCAD, Allplan and Revit compared to ACA.

Thank You!

[twiceroadsfool]

Welcome to the Forum. Since you have a lot of pretty broad questions, im just going to through a few thoughts at you, based on what i read and the impression i get. Hopefully itll help you make your decision as you move forward.

Also, do a search here for similar posts, and youll find TONS of information.

I´m working currently on a pretty big retail project (cross area over 50 000m2) and I´ve been using ACA to do the designs (I´m an architect). The project is a BIM project. I started working with ACA 2008 and during the project I have been upgrading the program first to 2009 (fine) and then to 2010. At this point I got a new computer with the following specs:
Windows Vista 64
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz 2.67 GHz
RAM 12Gt
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295
When I got the new computer with ACA 2010 the problems started (there were some with 2008 and 2009 but not this much): crashing, slowing down, etc. I´ve sent the error codes to Autodesk but haven´t got any replies. Luckly (or not...) because of the situation in economy the project was delayed few months and now I have time to think what I´m gonna do with the program. I´ve googled possible solutions but none of them have helped me so far (reinstall, updates). Some say the Vista is the problem, some say the videocard, some say it´s the 64kbit system etc etc.

Well, let me say this first. If you want to try another platform becuase you want to, thats one issue. If youre doing it solely because of a hardware/software compatability issue, id be headed in another direction.

It sounds like you have some nice new hardware. For what its worth, we have ACA 2010 here, as well as Revit 2010, as well as both versions back through the 2006 series. ACA2010 is much leaner than 2009 seemed to be, and were really enjoying it. If there is a compability issue and you have a lot of crashing, etc, id be researching different Video Card drivers, settings, etc. A lot of folks here are using similar hardware and the same programs, so try mimicking their systems.

I wouldnt say there is *any one problem.* People are running 64 bit with no issues, people are running Vista without issues, and people are using Autodesk products, and nvidia cards without problems too. Then of course, some people have tons of problems, lol. You have to figure out which setup will function reliably. This will happen with Revit and ArchiCAD too.

So now I´ve come to the point that I want to try an other program. In our office we have licenses for ArchiCAD, Allplan and Revit (one Allplan user, two ArchiCAD users and zero Revit users. ACA is used mainly but only 2D drawings (no BIM)). If you have used/are using these programs and also have some experiences on ACA, could you give me pros and cons of them compared to ACA? My method of working is the following (short version..):
1. I use spaceobjects to do the preliminary designs (no walls etc are drawn at this point). Based on this information I get areas and volumes which are useful for the customer. Also some 2D lines are used to define some details for the customer
2. I use outer walls (also windows, doors) and roofs to create the shape/form and the architecture of the building. This exterior model is used for the 3D visualizations
3. At this point usually the contruction engineer comes in picture and with him/her I go thru possible construction alternatives. I also start to add interior walls, doors etc
4. When the model is finished I create/project the 2D drawings (plans, sections,..) needed from the model and add information that´s needed (dimensions, texts etc) on the 2D designs.

Youll find different variations of the same theme in the different platforms. You have spaces, we have Massing/Areas/Rooms. ArchiCAD has something else, i dont remember what. But, it sounds like youre pretty set with your workflow. Understand that moving platforms will sometimes dictate needing a new workflow. If you try to say "I do it this way, thats what i do, and thats what i want to do" it wont always go as smoothly as it could. Following are a few examples.

Some things that I want from the program is:
- using and editing the spaceobjects is easy (actually this is good in ACA). Also would be nice if the walls could be created from the spaceobjects (possible in ACA but not easy.

Its possible and fairly easy in Revit, but its not always in your best interests. Sometimes its faster/easier to just follow the Massing with new walls, depending on what theyre doing.

- moving inside a BIG model (over 50 000m2) with realistic view on (3Dorbit) is easy and fluent (not in ACA, really slow at least in my case..)

Tons of factors affect this. Ive never seen a BIM program that moved FLUENTLY in the native authoring tool. Too much information moving around to move fluently. I personally dont find moving around in real time all that pleasant in Revit, but i dont have the nice hardware either. In Navisworks, its great, and the model is much lighter...

- in ACA it´s really frustrating that it´s possible to create too accurate dimensions - sometimes this causes that e.g. a wall seems to be on top of a module but when you zoom really close it´s 0.054mm off the module. I know about the snaps etc but honestly, do they work ok?

Sorry to say, i dont think this is a software thing. ive seen this in every platform ive worked in. Heck, even working by hand people would sometimes add things up wrong, LOL. Snaps work fine in Revit, but then again i think they work fine in ACA too.

- 2D drawing is possible (this is really good in ACA)

ACA is built on the backbone of a digital pencil, dont forget that. If youre coming from unintelligent 2D drafted ACA documents, youre going to get annoyed with the look of Revit drawings. Revit isnt a "drawing program." That said, it makes drawings, but they wont look exactly like ACA, and they might not be pretty enough for what youre used to. If youre going to fight with Revit (or ArchiCAD) to make drawings pretty like they were in ACA, id spend the time fixing the machine to work with ACA.

- the program should work so that I don´t need to spend a week trying to figure out why some command crashes the program when the answer is that I should have had 2 in the uwhwuiewiu-variable instead of 3. So simplicity: do I really need 2534 variables to design and model a building?

Revit/ArchiCAD/Vectorworks/Digital Project, and any other software that has intelligent objects in a model, instead of 2D drawings, is going to have sets of rules to play with. Revit curtain walls come to mind. There are hoops to get through, and hurdles to get over. If youre modeling just the outside in ACA, then doing 2D drawings on top of it, and the amount of variables bothers you, you MIGHT find yourself overwhelmed on your first few jobs in Revit or ArchiCAD (or any BIm capable modeler, for that matter).

Having said all that, ive worked in ACA, ive worked in Revit, VW, Archi, and DP. Im in Revit now, and i love it. Id never go back to ACA unless i had to. But, its not an instantaneous process. Thinking youll be able to jump RIGHT IN and get work done in Revit would be a mistake. And it wont be without hardships, and there WILL most likely be hardware compatibility issues (particularly with Revit 2010) just like what youre facing now.

The grass is certainly greener, but its not the picturesque pasture you may think. Good luck with what you decide!



Thank You![/QUOTE]