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Thread: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

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    Active Member dortega4269's Avatar
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    Question Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    I have created several Dynamic Blocks (DBs) in my day and I seem to have dreamt up a new and very intelligent, too intelligent for me it seems, dynamic block of Metal Studs. Let me break down what I've done so that what I'd like to do is clear(er).

    I setup a few DBs with a few Vis States, a rotate and an array parameter. The way I've created the vis states allows me to rotate and array the objects together, which helps if I have to change Metal Stud sizes from the vis state and keep the item(s) rotated and arrayed without having to redo any of my work. Have a look for yourself to fully understand what I mean (400S; it's a 3D DB I made of Metal Studs).

    Now, the area that I'd like help on is this:
    1. I insert the DB in a plan of a project, typically I insert the jamb & headers onto the drawings and then proceed to place the king studs (400S300-64; vis state) at all exposed corners of hallways and rooms.
    2. Then I add the infill studs from king stud to jamb/king stud/intersecting wall. I don't want to bring in another DB to infill I'd prefer to only have one per wall, meaning, I want to start out with a king stud (400S300-54) and proceed down the wall with a standard stud (400S162-54) at 16"o/c. "How would I setup my DB to start with a king stud and array into a standard stud?" Note: sometimes I'll have a standard stud to place and other times I wont, it all depends on the length of the wall.
    3. I will have mechanical ducts and plumbing of all sizes going through my walls and I'll have to accommodate for them and shift my stud layout to either side of the duct/pipe. This means that I will have to change the spacing between the king stud and the first standard stud from 16" to say 9" (this dimension will vary or course) with all of the other standard studs staying at 16"o/c. "What would be the best way of achieving this? I figure I need to add the move parameter, but what I'm wondering is, How will it work for once you answer the question above, IF that question is even attainable?"


    For any and all that may have the slightest clue of what I'm trying to achieve, Thank You for pulling your hair out long enough to understand what I'm doing. To those of you that are still confused... well... ask me a question or two and see if I can help you to help me.

    Thanks,
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by dortega861146; 2009-07-30 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Added the DB... "o.Ops!"
    David J. Ortega
    ___________________________________________________________________
    AutoCAD 2015 | AutoCAD MEP 2015 | Revit MEP 2015 | NavisWorks Manage 2015
    Autodesk | TheSwamp | CadTutor | AUGI

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    I could stop if I wanted to artisteroi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    Hi,
    I have done something similar to this before only with wood studs not metal.
    First I will say you dont really need the rotation. It will cause you to have to program it when it is easier to rotate the block once it is in model space.

    The way you need to set this up is to create visibilities for the various type of walls needed (with vent, without vent, with window, without window, etc.) Change your stud sizing to a stretch parameter (with zero grips) controled by a lookup. So if the stud is 1.62 then the lookup controling it will say 400s162-54. It can look just like it does now but it will free up your visibilities to allow the different wall configurations.

    Draw your wall with the vent/window/door (can be stretchy) with a stud on either side. use 2 arrays, one going out in either direction. If you need the over all length add a dummy parameter with no actions tied to it and chain it to both of your arrays so when you stretch either of the arrays it will stretch the dummy and show the total length of the wall.

  3. #3
    I could stop if I wanted to artisteroi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    oh your stud is a solid. That cant be stretched. I know a work around. Draw the stud as a polyline in plan view. open the properties menu and select the polyline, in the top of the properties menue the is a property called thickness. it is zero by default change it to what ever you want your stud length to be. Now you have a polyline with 3D properties, and it is stretchable in the block editor.

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    Active Member dortega4269's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    Quote Originally Posted by artisteroi View Post
    Hi,
    I have done something similar to this before only with wood studs not metal.
    First I will say you dont really need the rotation. It will cause you to have to program it when it is easier to rotate the block once it is in model space.

    The way you need to set this up is to create visibilities for the various type of walls needed (with vent, without vent, with window, without window, etc.) Change your stud sizing to a stretch parameter (with zero grips) controled by a lookup. So if the stud is 1.62 then the lookup controling it will say 400s162-54. It can look just like it does now but it will free up your visibilities to allow the different wall configurations.

    Draw your wall with the vent/window/door (can be stretchy) with a stud on either side. use 2 arrays, one going out in either direction. If you need the over all length add a dummy parameter with no actions tied to it and chain it to both of your arrays so when you stretch either of the arrays it will stretch the dummy and show the total length of the wall.
    Thanks Artisteroi your plan for executing the DB sounds very logical, though I'm unfamiliar with the 'lookup' function I'll do some research and submit a test sample to see what you think. With regard to the polyline thickness, that sounds great but this will limit me when slicing my studs to the top track (top plate) in my model. Also, I'm required to create solids for coordination with other trades (M/E/P) 3D models. We export the models into Navis Works and produce clash detections between trades and I believe we are required to have a solid for this process. I wish I could use the thickness since it'd be a lot easier to set my height of walls for multiple studs at once using a menu instead of a plane.

    Thanks for all of your help on this. I'll be sure to keep you posted...

    ~David O.
    David J. Ortega
    ___________________________________________________________________
    AutoCAD 2015 | AutoCAD MEP 2015 | Revit MEP 2015 | NavisWorks Manage 2015
    Autodesk | TheSwamp | CadTutor | AUGI

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    I could stop if I wanted to artisteroi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    the lookup is a sorta spread sheet. you place input and output information inside the table and that information controls the parameters. so you can say that stretch stud depth = 1.625 then stud output = 400S162.

    but since you must maintain a solid object. that may be difficult. I have in the past used 2 solids over lapping, and a move parameter to give the illusion of a stretch. One solid slides "inside" the other and it appears as if the solid is stretched.

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    Active Member dortega4269's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    Awe... I got you. I'm going to start one and post it. Let me know if I'm using it to its full potential. I always wondered what the lookup parameter was since it seemed to be similar to the vis state parameter.

    I totally understand what you were trying to achieve with the two solids. It makes sense. I wonder if Autodesk plans on implementing a Z axis stretch in an upcoming release? If not, I wonder what the reasoning is. After looking through this forum and others like it I find several people trying to stretch in a Z axis, but once they figure it wont work they give up and the threads end.

    "I wish, I wish, I wish... (maybe if I say it three times it'll happen, hahaha)"


    Thanks again for your help
    David J. Ortega
    ___________________________________________________________________
    AutoCAD 2015 | AutoCAD MEP 2015 | Revit MEP 2015 | NavisWorks Manage 2015
    Autodesk | TheSwamp | CadTutor | AUGI

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    I could stop if I wanted to artisteroi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    I Think the primary reason that autodesk dosn't have a z axis component in teh block editor is that people will try to stretch solid objects.
    In autocad a solid is a solid. In other programs like solidworks or spaceclaim or sketchup a solid is actually a face. Its completely hollow like in a video game. Those "solids" can be strecthed in a 3rd dimension because you are actually only moving a face then recalculating the end point. Since a true solid like in autocad has to be controled with bolean (addition or subtraction) controls, stretch is not an option. Maybe autodesk will add some bolean parameters to the block editor which will allow us to create a true 3D block. maybe I will add it to the wish list.

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    Active Member dortega4269's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    I vote for you to add it to the wish list. If this will make my life easier, which nothing in life ever is, then I'm all for it. Drawing in 3D and creating these models is fun and even though I'm not in full understanding of every function of 3D CAD I'm having a darn good time figuring it out.

    Thanks for the enlightenment on 3D solids by the way. I learn something new everyday and that's what makes my job great.
    Last edited by dortega861146; 2009-08-11 at 03:01 PM.
    David J. Ortega
    ___________________________________________________________________
    AutoCAD 2015 | AutoCAD MEP 2015 | Revit MEP 2015 | NavisWorks Manage 2015
    Autodesk | TheSwamp | CadTutor | AUGI

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    Active Member dortega4269's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    Quote Originally Posted by artisteroi View Post
    Hi,
    I have done something similar to this before only with wood studs not metal.
    First I will say you dont really need the rotation. It will cause you to have to program it when it is easier to rotate the block once it is in model space.

    The way you need to set this up is to create visibilities for the various type of walls needed (with vent, without vent, with window, without window, etc.) Change your stud sizing to a stretch parameter (with zero grips) controled by a lookup. So if the stud is 1.62 then the lookup controling it will say 400s162-54. It can look just like it does now but it will free up your visibilities to allow the different wall configurations.

    Draw your wall with the vent/window/door (can be stretchy) with a stud on either side. use 2 arrays, one going out in either direction. If you need the over all length add a dummy parameter with no actions tied to it and chain it to both of your arrays so when you stretch either of the arrays it will stretch the dummy and show the total length of the wall.
    Artisteroi,
    I've been trying to get a grasp of this Lookup Parameter and I'm failing miserably at my attempt to create my stud DB. I create the Vis States, then the Lookup Param and I get lost when adding the parameters and setting up the Input&Lookup Properties. I'm not sure of which combination of parameters is right for me. I've mixed and matched several different params and they don't seem to work out the way I want them to.
    Can you post a simplified version of what you think I'm trying to achieve using text so that I can decipher the DB and try to figure it out on my own? I've thought of a few new ideas and I think they're hurting my thought process... the more I think up the less I get done and the further from completion I get! I'm going nutz over here! hahaha
    If you can help me out I'd appreciate it. Like I said I don't want you to create anything too complex that's going to take hours and hours for you to make, just something using text that will help me understand how everything works as I insert it and change the Vis States and the Lookup values.

    Thanks in advance for your help on this...


    ~David
    David J. Ortega
    ___________________________________________________________________
    AutoCAD 2015 | AutoCAD MEP 2015 | Revit MEP 2015 | NavisWorks Manage 2015
    Autodesk | TheSwamp | CadTutor | AUGI

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    I could stop if I wanted to artisteroi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dynamic Array & Visibility...

    I understand.
    The greatest advantage to the dynamic blocks is that you can just keep improving them
    the biggest disadvantage is that you can just keep improving them

    I will mess around with your block in a bit, shouldn't take to long, but I have to do some stuff for work first. check back here before the dy is up though

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