USACE BIM REQUIREMENTS

[yatesfire]

I have been following the developement of the USACE requirements for "BIM" models for the last 2 years. Our firm does a lot of design work in the fire sprinkler field for these projects. It appears that the timeline for implementation of the BIM requirements has reached the point where in FY10, all construction documents will be required in an integrated BIM model. I am not aware of any fire protection design software that is capable of integrating into a BIM model. All available software is an add-on to AUTOCAD.
Hydraulic calculations and fabrication lists are produced by these programs. The result is that the work will have to be done twice. Once for shop drawings and submittals to authorities, and then translated completely into the BIM model.

USACE primary focus is on Bently sofware for the BIM model.


After that log winded description of the situation, following are my questions

1. What is the status of interoperability between REVIT and Bently?

2. Is anyone out there familiar with 3rd party programs that are based on BIM software in the fire protection field.

Thanks in advance for any responses

[dgladfelter]

I can't speak on the interoperability with Bentley products (Navisworks may be your ticket there), but let me start by stating that BIM is NOT about software as much as it is about process. BIM (at the design phase) is about using models to better collaborate with other disciplines, and to aid in the identification of errors and omissions before they become a change order in the field.

That said, I'd ask if you've looked at Revit MEP and/or AutoCAD MEP. Either platform will likely require you to create some custom content, but I'd guess one of the two platforms will address most if not all of your needs.

A guy in my LUG actually uses AutoCAD MEP for modeling process piping/water treatment plants. The reason they chose AutoCAD MEP over Revit MEP was because Revit MEP couldn't handle the large pipe (60" +) sizes required in that discipline. Some would argue that AutoCAD MEP isn't BIM software, but AutoCAD MEP models can be analyzed in Navisworks in much the same way as Revit models can.

My point in that slight digression is there's a firm who has chosen to use a piece of software that many wouldn't consider "BIM Software", but their PROCESS of building, analyzing, collaborating, and simply using the model is as BIM as any other BIM application I've seen.

[TerribleTim]

Well spoken dgladfelter.

[yatesfire]

Thank you for the advice, however the USACE requirement is for the entire project to be developed in, and coordinated in an integrated model. The prefered, if not required, finished BIM model deliverable to the Corps of Engineers, will need to be in DGN v8 format. Assuming that most of the team for the other trades will be working in Bentley software, I am searching for a way to still work, developing a model of our systems, using autodesk products, which could be integrated, in the overall model, while still retaining intelligence. That is where the interoperabilty comes in. NAVIS models do not have the required intelligence for all components, that is required by the USACE.

It still is looking like we will have to develope our projects using our current design software that has hydraulic calculation and fabrication capability, and either hire out the developement of a Dgn V8 compatable model, or purchase and learn the Bentley BIM software.

[dgladfelter]

My previous firm had a number of government contracts that dictated BIM as a requirement. It's been a while but I seem to recall that while you could certainly tell the government really wanted a Bentley deliverable, we were able to get them to accept electronic files from Autodesk products.

The fact none of the respective consultants were on Bentley software did seem to play a role in the variance. Again, the details are a little fuzzy, but I think what we ultimately settled on was converting the plan sheets from DWG to DGN, and then providing a Navis model as the BIM deliverable. Not the clear cut answer I wish I could give, but after numerous meetings among the various managers of the project, we were able to find a solution that worked for everyone.

[TerribleTim]

Interesting insight. We are in the process of implementing Revit here but are not 3d yet.

We have a few projects for the Military, and tons for the "Government". Really two separate animals. Our "Government" stuff (State GA and local jurisdictions) is all just flat 2d AutoCAD. But for now, our Military stuff is as well. I've been trying to watch for the Military requirements as they move toward a BIM deliverable. Interesting to hear you are struggling with it now and what the struggle is. Thanks for posting.

[RobertB]

Thank you for the advice, however the USACE requirement is for the entire project to be developed in, and coordinated in an integrated model. The prefered, if not required, finished BIM model deliverable to the Corps of Engineers, will need to be in DGN v8 format. Assuming that most of the team for the other trades will be working in Bentley software, I am searching for a way to still work, developing a model of our systems, using autodesk products, which could be integrated, in the overall model, while still retaining intelligence. That is where the interoperabilty comes in. NAVIS models do not have the required intelligence for all components, that is required by the USACE.

It still is looking like we will have to develope our projects using our current design software that has hydraulic calculation and fabrication capability, and either hire out the developement of a Dgn V8 compatable model, or purchase and learn the Bentley BIM software.

The USACE does have a preferred software package for BIM authoring, but they do accept IFC files. So you can, in theory, author in your preferred software as long as you also provide IFCs of the model.

[billy342601]

I agree with Robert as I've had 4 projects already that were required to be in BIM for the USCoE. We did all the work in Revit and provided a IFC file for their records.

Be aware that many of the offices are not setup or prepared to work with the BIM model, they just want it for their archives. The Alaska offices do not have anyone trained in Bentley, Revit or any other flavor of BIM and have no intention of getting there in the next 5 years.

Provide them with an IFC file and the Revit file (both on the same CD if possible) and they will be happy campers.

As for specialized details, you can do them in CAD, then import into BIM as a detail. Not the best, but it has worked for my office thus far.

[pjohnson.137155]

Basically what you are saying is that you have your software, processes and tools in one software and need to be able to take that and convert that to BIM Models? We have developed a process for taking manufacturer data and automatically creating BIM Models.
That way you should be able to use what you have and move into the approiate BIM software.

Patrick K Johnson
http:\\www.cadenhancement.com

[omorah]

I can't speak on the interoperability with Bentley products (Navisworks may be your ticket there), but let me start by stating that BIM is NOT about software as much as it is about process. BIM (at the design phase) is about using models to better collaborate with other disciplines, and to aid in the identification of errors and omissions before they become a change order in the field.

That said, I'd ask if you've looked at Revit MEP and/or AutoCAD MEP. Either platform will likely require you to create some custom content, but I'd guess one of the two platforms will address most if not all of your needs.

A guy in my LUG actually uses AutoCAD MEP for modeling process piping/water treatment plants. The reason they chose AutoCAD MEP over Revit MEP was because Revit MEP couldn't handle the large pipe (60" +) sizes required in that discipline. Some would argue that AutoCAD MEP isn't BIM software, but AutoCAD MEP models can be analyzed in Navisworks in much the same way as Revit models can.

My point in that slight digression is there's a firm who has chosen to use a piece of software that many wouldn't consider "BIM Software", but their PROCESS of building, analyzing, collaborating, and simply using the model is as BIM as any other BIM application I've seen.

DGLADFELTER you mentioned " BIM is NOT about software as much as it is about process. BIM (at the design phase) is about using models "

I'm still work in progress . . .Please don't get me wrong, I am still trying to get a good grasp of BIM and it's concepts.
Every time I read on BIM, it always tends to fall as the 'foundation' of the whole project, and that design 'foundation' is the software.
The last time I use the drafting board was in college, now ALL I do is software-based, and BIM is no exception.

The issue on BIM is what to use to get there - the software. All disciplines are concerned about the software and most of the discussion on this thread is, software. I feel that if I don't have the right software (Autodesk or Bentley) I cannot start, continue or finish, so I feel the whole structure is software based which in turn changes our new way of design manipulations and directions.

I ask as many questions as I can to get a better grasp of BIM.