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Thread: Additive updates and Side by side updates

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    Default Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Many programs we use on a daily basis on our computers will inform you at start up that a new version is available for you to install (Like iTunes, Turbo tax and other programs like this.) These can be updates to the current version or they can be completely new versions of the product. If you say yes to this, the update is installed and either you reboot or you go on from there.

    If this type of option was available for AutoCAD would you be interested? Why or why not?

    If you had the choice to do a side by side install and then deploy as an Additive install for your users, would you? Why or why not?

    If this was a choice for a subscription advantage pack that included a feature that would improve your productivity, was easy for you to learn and did not change visual fidelity (like the polyline editing tools in 2011) would you do an additive install for these types of features between releases or instead of a full install of a newer version of software?

    What improvements to ACAD installing process would help you and save you time?

    Thanks for your help and time!

    Kathy O'Connell
    ACAD Product Manager

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    Super Moderator rkmcswain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    If this type of option was available for AutoCAD would you be interested? Why or why not?
    No. We don't want our users to even see notices like this. We decide when updates or new versions should be applied, not the end user. I can understand the desire if you are a solo operator and you are the administrator of your one machine, but in corporate environments we should have an easy way to block this.

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    If you had the choice to do a side by side install and then deploy as an Additive install for your users, would you? Why or why not?
    Kathy, I don't understand. Can you define "side by side install" and "Additive install"? It *sounds* like you mean installing some sort of "update" that would turn AutoCAD XX into AutoCAD XX+1....without having to install a full deployment....? Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    If this was a choice for a subscription advantage pack that included a feature that would improve your productivity, was easy for you to learn and did not change visual fidelity (like the polyline editing tools in 2011) would you do an additive install for these types of features between releases or instead of a full install of a newer version of software?
    It depends. (I started to explain, but it got too difficult and too long to put into words here...)


    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    What improvements to ACAD installing process would help you and save you time?
    We need a way to push updates/adv packs/service packs/etc. silently, to multiple users, with zero user intervention. I realize that much larger companies have special applications for doing this, but small to mid sized firms probably don't - and being able to push even as few as a 3 or 4 updates without having to go sit at the machine, or resort to homemade scripts, etc., would be worth it.
    R.K. McSwain | CAD Panacea |

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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Hi Randy,

    Thanks for the quick reply and the questions.

    First off, we would never offer something like additive installs without giving CAD managers the tools to turn them off for their users--we understand fully how important it is for CAD managers to review and test any new items before they are installed on many other computers.

    As far as what are additive versus side by side--and Additive would be basically making versions xxx become either version xxx+1 or version xxx.1--so only the new code is installed and not the complete program again. The side by side installs I believe are what you do know--where you install version xxx+1 next to Version xxx, test xxx+1 fully and when you feel ready you install version xxx+1 on all your users computers--but still leave xxx on their computers just in case (or because they need to use it for certain projects they are working on.)

    As are as a simple way to push updates out to your users--would the way Windows do it work for you (with less annoying reminders)? So the CAD managers and or administrators receive notice on start-up that an update, service pack or Subscripion advantage pack are available--would you like to download them now? This message of course can be turned off and only seen by CAD managers. Once you test it out, you post it to a local server and send out the same message to your users and they see the same type of message that an Update for ACAD is available please install it?

    As far as Additive features--if the answer is too long to write--please call me--I would love to hear what you have to say!

    Thanks again!

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    Super Moderator rkmcswain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    As are as a simple way to push updates out to your users--would the way Windows do it work for you (with less annoying reminders)? So the CAD managers and or administrators receive notice on start-up that an update, service pack or Subscripion advantage pack are available--would you like to download them now? This message of course can be turned off and only seen by CAD managers. Once you test it out, you post it to a local server and send out the same message to your users and they see the same type of message that an Update for ACAD is available please install it?
    Yes. This would work for the most part. I don't even think we would want or need the users to see any messages or tray icons, etc.

    Ideally, I would like to see some sort of application (like the current "Autodesk Asset Locator") in which the person responsible could select an update, select some or all machines, and then Apply. Whether or not it installed the update right then or at the next reboot doesn't really matter... We can force reboots

    We can discuss the other later - it's a three day weekend for us - starting now...
    R.K. McSwain | CAD Panacea |

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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Its not just in controlling but also in network traffic. Instead of 50 users, all downloading updates off the internet, you would have only one CAD Admin downloading the updates and locating them for later distribution. Controlling this the same way Windows updates are done would be kind of nice (silent, hands-off, single point of control), although I don't do those here so I can't comment on how that is actually set up.
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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dgorsman View Post
    Its not just in controlling but also in network traffic. Instead of 50 users, all downloading updates off the internet, you would have only one CAD Admin downloading the updates and locating them for later distribution. Controlling this the same way Windows updates are done would be kind of nice (silent, hands-off, single point of control), although I don't do those here so I can't comment on how that is actually set up.
    Windows does it with WSUS
    R.K. McSwain | CAD Panacea |

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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Not to be the bad guy here but the way Autodesk and AutoCad subscriptions are now-a-days where they basically FORCE you to upgrade or screw you otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if Autodesk charged you for these little "upgrades" somehow. They'll find a way...they always do... Our company is basically forced to make a very difficult decision to either let our subscriptions run out for the people we've let go (in this economy) or maintain the product with an upgrade that will probably break the bank on a lot of empty seats not used. What to do? Patches and automatic updates are a good thing but not if they put the company practically out of business.

    We'll kick it with 2007 for now and take the hit when the time's right because any patch or upgrade will obviously pertain to the newest billion dollar version of AutoCAD.

    We're exempt anyway....

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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    Many programs we use on a daily basis on our computers will inform you at start up that a new version is available for you to install (Like iTunes, Turbo tax and other programs like this.) These can be updates to the current version or they can be completely new versions of the product. If you say yes to this, the update is installed and either you reboot or you go on from there.

    If this type of option was available for AutoCAD would you be interested? Why or why not?
    As everyone else has mentioned, as CAD manager, I'm the only one that really needs to know, and why does the product need to tell me, why cant I just receive an email? I already have a special folder in outlook just for email from Autodesk.
    If you had the choice to do a side by side install and then deploy as an Additive install for your users, would you? Why or why not?
    It depends. I didnt mind the additive install of the subscription bonus packs, but going from 10 to 11, I need a side by side because I usually use new versions as a time to do updates on our standards or procedures. This year as part of the update to 2011, we switched our standard font to Arial from simplex. This involved updating all of our block libraries and tool palettes. So if a user is working on an old project, we dont want them using the new font half way through, we want them to complete the old job on the old font, just do all new work in the new version.
    If this was a choice for a subscription advantage pack that included a feature that would improve your productivity, was easy for you to learn and did not change visual fidelity (like the polyline editing tools in 2011) would you do an additive install for these types of features between releases or instead of a full install of a newer version of software?
    Same as above, I dont seem to mind for subscription packs, but then again, I only manage 5 computers. And I thoroughly test things before I give them to my other 4 users.
    What improvements to ACAD installing process would help you and save you time?
    First off, it takes 2 1/2 hours to download the file (granted this is controlled by Internet connection speeds), then it takes another hour or so to unzip the file, then it takes another 1/2 hour to 1 hour to setup the deployment and install. To save me time, it would be nice if it was a little quicker. When 2011 shipped, I started the download at 2 pm, and finished the installation on my system around 6:30pm.
    Christopher T. Cowgill, P.E.
    Autodesk Expert Elite
    AEC Collection Civil 3D 2020
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    Default Re: Additive updates and Side by side updates

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    Many programs we use on a daily basis on our computers will inform you at start up that a new version is available for you to install (Like iTunes, Turbo tax and other programs like this.) These can be updates to the current version or they can be completely new versions of the product. If you say yes to this, the update is installed and either you reboot or you go on from there.

    If this type of option was available for AutoCAD would you be interested? Why or why not?
    Absolutely not interested. To examine the examples you've used, TurboTax is a rarely used program, and updates for latest tax code interpretations makes sense. Itunes on the other hand, has developed a well deserved negative reputation for its pushed updates for breaking functionality & losing compatability. Pushing updates is occasionally a good idea, and often a very bad idea. Good when it involves security patches or bug fixes that close operating system holes/leaks and have been EXTENSIVELY regression tested. Bad ideas in most other situations, and absolutely horrible ideas when it comes to my daily bread-and-butter operations.

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    If you had the choice to do a side by side install and then deploy as an Additive install for your users, would you? Why or why not?

    Uhm, no. Although on subscription, upgrades are never performed on autodesk's schedule. We may wait several versions, and aalways require older versions to complete existing jobs or work with subs/clients who are on older versions or using. Much more appropriate in our situation (multi-platform, multi-discipline, multi-client, multi-sub, highly collaborative) to do fresh installs as required and upgrades as we need - not as they are released.

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    If this was a choice for a subscription advantage pack that included a feature that would improve your productivity, was easy for you to learn and did not change visual fidelity (like the polyline editing tools in 2011) would you do an additive install for these types of features between releases or instead of a full install of a newer version of software?
    possibly -- if it's under the cad manager's control - not the user's. It's not possible to trust either the user or autodesk to test against the other requirements in the company, whether third party applications, client tool sets, and so on. We have to test and understand what's different before letting billable work be impacted. Or risk losing 3DSOUT in the middle of a job that requires that functionality. Slipstreaming releases and updates always sounds cool, but in the trenches is risky.

    And PLEASE -- do not enable annoying messages on startup - we're already killing the communication center on every deployment. email work quite nicely, and enables record keeping of notices - something popups and alerts cannot. And you've got an email address on file for every registered license. Please don't waste my bandwidth, time, or resources by phoning home.

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy.oconnell View Post
    What improvements to ACAD installing process would help you and save you time?
    better testing and qa/qc before release of the software would save me time and money. finishing features instead of letting them languish would save me time and money. NOT releasing updates based on the calendar instead of FFF would save me time and money. Fixing things that are not working properly (groups, 3dplines )instead of adding eyecandy would save me time and money. futzing with installation procedures will do very little to save me time or money.
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