Soft for BIM management?

[jbenoit44]

Hi green, that's a great explanation.
I work in Europe, and construction process is not quiet the same as yours; so my next question is: when do you provide BIM worflow with subcontractors along the timeline of a project? Do you think it is a time saving way of working?

A little more: subcontractors are not used to provide daily updates in Europe, we have to work on it I guess. Are you used to, or you became so because of clash detection?
And to an end, is BIM management for you a full time job?

Regards,
JB

[greenwaldc]

I'll use one of my current projects as an example. We have gone out to bid, and are in the process of awarding contracts, specifically for the MEP trades. Over the past month, during the bid/bid review process, I have been preparing backgrounds, gridlines, etc., with the intention of beginning BIM coordination sessions within the next two weeks, which is barely enough time to coordinate the underground utilities before the footings are poured in mid-December.

Regarding the benefits of BIM, yes, it does save time and money in the end. Much more time is spent up front on a project, but when it comes to installation, there are fewer issues between the trades. We also are able to sort out some Architectural details during the coordination process, instead of waiting for it to be built in the field. Basically, there is less re-work in the field, I find that to be well worth the added coordination up front.

We have had some issues with contractors failing to provide updates, or re-uploading old drawings. The problem tends to resolve itself after the first time somebody does this though. When modifications to a drawing are made, and the drawing refreshed in Navis, the modifications show up in a different color. It becomes quite apparent who is or who is not doing their jobs. Since we are all relying on each other to provide up-to-date and accurate information in the drawings, and failure to do so sets the entire group back, there is a large incentive to get the job done.

And finally, yes, BIM/MEP management is my full time job.

[jbenoit44]

As I want to build such a workflow in my company, how long did it take for you and your company to manage this?
I'm looking for the correct timeline between the very start of BIM "way of work" and the stage that is yours.
In my country, we're a bit late about getting outside 2D cad, and training people may be tough. The more I correctly estimate your evolution, the best I will succeed.

As a Navisworks all-day user, how long have you mastered this soft?

regards,

JB

[greenwaldc]

My company has been pushing BIM for about 5 years now. We started by working with other contractors in the area and working on a set of 'standards', which we could use and incorporate into our contracts. I personally have been doing this for about 2 years now.

I would say that your first few projects will be a little rough, you'll be working out the bugs, and learning the best ways to utilize your programs. You will be best served by working with other technically-savvy contractors, and working together to set your BIM standards.

One other option, at least here in the States, is to hire an outside consultant to run your first BIM project. From that experience, you can often get ahead, and shorten the time you would otherwise require to implement it.

[robw1031]

This issue "We have had some issues with contractors failing to provide updates, or re-uploading old drawings,"

Is caused by this issue "which is barely enough time to coordinate the underground utilities before the footings are poured in mid-December."

[greenwaldc]

Rob,
I do believe that is part of the issue. It has been a challenge to convince Project Managers that coordination doesn't just happen, it takes time. To push the point, I have been working with our schedulers, and inserting coordination and review/approval activities linked to both contracts and installation of items such as UG utilities.

The first response is usually "you need to get coordination done faster", to which I respond "get your MEP contracts done in less than 4 weeks, and the issue is resolved."

In the end, it all works out, although each project seems to go faster than the last.

[jbenoit44]

hi guys,

Green, did you benchmarked the worflow of coordination you're following today with the way you did before (before the big bad BIM arrived!)?

This is the point top managers wants to evaluate, even if no one knows the job that is done in 2d. The only thing that afraid them is the effort(and cost) people have to make to use the new softs.

[Craig_L]

The question that can be asked in return to that is:

Does the effort and cost involved in training equate to;
Greater productivity
Fewer errors - meaning less cost incurred during construction phase (this has already been shown to be the case, and is documented in the BIM guidelines that you have)
Cost savings for clients & the project teams
Greater staff retention & more skilled staff
Shift in liability

There's much more to this list, but the whole picture needs to be looked at to see if there is long term cost benefit and also staff retention, all of these factors lead to savings further down the track. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money...

[greenwaldc]

That isn't an easy question to answer, as you must evaluate it on a case-by-case basis. From what I've seen, detailing/coordination time increases quite a bit up front, however fewer errors make their way into the field. By solving an error in the detailing phase, you save the cost of a work crew wasting half their day resolving it in the field...not to mention that other trades will likely be involved in the field, further running up the cost of field changes.

I've found that doing coordination on-line using Live Meeting, Go To Meeting or similar software, as opposed to meeting in person to do overlays, has been much more productive. We gain an hour or two due to 'travel time', and are able to re-detail problem areas immediately.

[jbenoit44]

I thank you for all of that, guys.

My mind is clear about the way I will follow.

See you on another thread,

JB