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Thread: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

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    Revit MEP Moderator mjdanowski's Avatar
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    Default Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    Attention Autodesk and Electrical Engineers/Designers:

    For a panelboard:
    Connected load = Apparent Power Phase A + Apparent Power Phase B + Apparent Power Phase C

    Revit is not doing this for some panel schedules & panel properties. Sometimes Revit decides to set the connected load to "0". Sometimes Revit decides to set the connected load to a random number. Sometimes Revit just decides to crash (unrelated but still applicable).

    There is a workaround to this by changing the panel totals in a panel schedule to be the above formula. However, I find this really, really, really upsetting. This is not some stupid visibility issue that marginally annoys my QA reviewer, this is a extremely large issue which essentially removes any confidence I might have had with Revit's calculation output. I can say for a fact that there are numerous projects out in construction right now which have incorrect data on their construction documents. I can say for a fact that some engineers are using these wrong numbers to size panelboards and feeders for real construction projects. I can say with pretty high confidence that there are projects out there which are going to require change orders to re-pull feeders and change out OCP because Revit can't add.

    I would strongly suggest everyone checks their panel schedules for their Revit MEP projects. It seems to be on projects which were updated either from 2010 to 2011 or 2011 to 2012.

    Gustav Kirchhoff is turning in his grave.

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    Revit MEP Moderator mjdanowski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    Still not fixed in 2013.

    For some reason total connected != Phase A + Phase B + Phase C.

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    All AUGI, all the time CADastrophe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    It seems that the only way that any of these infinite little bugs get fixed is when they change or remake the funtion entirely. There are so many things that have been around for so long, I don't know if I'd recognize Revit without them! I like Revit so I'm trying to stay hopeful...trying hard...
    Corey D.Please let the saying "The only stupid question is the one not asked" not be seen as a challenge to defy it.

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    Revit MEP Moderator mjdanowski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    The way I see it there are lots of stupid bugs out there that require workarounds. Panel schedule outside borders not working correctly for example. Its not ideal, but I can get around it.

    This is a big bug though. Actually, this is an extremely big bug. This is the electrical equivalent of dimensions just making up random numbers on plan which are not representative of actual lengths. The designer won't know its wrong unless he manually checks everyone, which is extremely dangerous.

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    All AUGI, all the time CADastrophe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    Quote Originally Posted by mjdanowski View Post
    This is a big bug though. Actually, this is an extremely big bug. This is the electrical equivalent of dimensions just making up random numbers on plan which are not representative of actual lengths. The designer won't know its wrong unless he manually checks everyone, which is extremely dangerous.
    I absolutely agree, and didn't intend to belittle this issue. At this time, we don't rely on Revit's panel schedules and other electrical calculations too heavily. All of our distribution systems are still basically designed manually.
    Corey D.Please let the saying "The only stupid question is the one not asked" not be seen as a challenge to defy it.

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    Revit MEP Moderator mjdanowski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    Quote Originally Posted by CADastrophe View Post
    I absolutely agree, and didn't intend to belittle this issue. At this time, we don't rely on Revit's panel schedules and other electrical calculations too heavily. All of our distribution systems are still basically designed manually.
    If I have to do all my calculations in excel like I used to, then what exactly is the point of using Revit? This has been a question I have been asking myself a lot lately. Half of the features which justify Revit's use don't work at all, and the other half require extensive time consuming workarounds to get them to work quasi-correctly. I feel like I am bending over backwards to use Revit in a production environment and the only benefit I am getting out of it is the ability to say "I did it in Revit".

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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    Quote Originally Posted by mjdanowski View Post
    Connected load = Apparent Power Phase A + Apparent Power Phase B + Apparent Power Phase C
    I was able to reproduce this today with some help with our development team. The issue seems to be related to having your connector's Load Classification Parameter associated with a Parameter that has an empty value specified.

    You can see in the attached video that when I create a Load Classification parameter, it has no value... when I then associate that with the connector, the connector ends up with a load classification with no value. Thus, when you connect this, there is no value that propegates into the panel totals, since the panel totals are dependent on summing values from load classifications. As soon as I set a value on the parameter associatd with the connector's Load Classification, the values tabulate.

    You can see this demontrated and fixed in this video: http://screencast.com/t/OOLLMZh7K2vE

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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    family.jpg

    Edit the family (make sure it is unde the proper category ie: Electrical fixtures, equipment.... etc etc.) under "mechanical" check the "part type" (see image attached) change it to the proper parameter. We had a similar headache were the electrical panels were not calculating the loads properly. after spending some time messing with the panel template and electrical systems I decided to mess around with the families and realized the "part type" was incorrect.

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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    Hello .
    I have small problem, the video helped a lot and I was able to show my receptacle load classification on the panel board schedule, in the schedule; load classification column I can see the load classification that I defined and there is another one called "Other" which all the " connectivity load" is shown there instead of one I defined, do you have any Idea whats going on??

    Thanks

    Amir

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    Default Re: Panel Schedules Don't Add Up Correctly

    Can you provide a screenshot of what you're seeing, and explain what you expect to see?

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