Foundation and Steel Phase vs. New Construction Phase

[chris.spenski]

I'm having an issue convincing a coworker that putting all new concrete and steel on a single phase (New Construction) is a big mistake. I was hoping that you guys could bring up some reasons why or why not you think this is a problem. Thanks

[lzaras]

I think we need more details.

If it's a completely new building (no existing, no other phasing) we put everything on New Construction.

We do have instances where we'll have an existing building with a new addition. In that case, I'll put all existing structure in the Existing phase and all new construction in the New Construction.

Sometimes, we'll even plan the building for a Future phase and place that structure on that phase (so that analysis programs can design for the Final design.)

So, what's your concern?

[chris.spenski]

It's an existing 24 story building from the 1920's

[chris.spenski]

But if you put both new steel and concrete on the same phase but they're not done at the same time or even the same area doesn't that cause problems for visiblity and filters?

[lzaras]

But if you put both new steel and concrete on the same phase but they're not done at the same time or even the same area doesn't that cause problems for visiblity and filters?

What is your role?
Are you a designer? Then no. No issues. You're going to convey to the contractor the construction that needs to be completed.
Are you a contractor? Maybe you want to consider additional phases to be in line with constructability.

For your project, I would start with Existing Phase and put all existing structure in. Once your exsiting model is completed, I'd begin creating my next phases. Maybe in Phase 1, you'll have a little bit of demolition of the existing structure and a little bit of construction of new structure? Then in Phase 2, you might have a continuation of new structure? ... Might also want to have a conversation with the architect to see what their thoughts on phasing is. If you're going to be linked to the Architect's model, you are both going to want to have the same phases set up so that all demo/construction is properly coordinated.

[chris.spenski]

Designer. I've already modeled the existing, as well as demo of certain existing. We currently have a template file filled with phase filters and view templates of which we use on all of our projects. How would there be no issue with having steel and concrete on the same phase? At least with them on their own phases you could still show them both with one halftone (using a phase filter) in order to accentuate the construction phase being shown on the drawing sheet. What I've found is that when you put all new steel and new concrete on one phase, but don't want to see both on every drawing, I have had to go through and manually hide or halftone the steel on the concrete drawings and the concrete on the steel drawings. If there is another way please let me know because this is maddening as well as a complete waste of time IMO.

I apologize if this sounds like I'm attacking you, this is not my intention :]

EDIT: Also, there is no Architect.

[lzaras]

I don't feel like I'm being attacked. I might not fully understand the workflow of your firm, though.

In my firm, we consider a Phase to be a particular time frame of work to be completed. In that Phase, we have steel, concrete, foundations, roof, walls, floors, etc. All of those need to be constructed in this particular phase; therefore all those items are modeled and documented in that corresponding phase. I don't break my model down into constructablilty... that's the contractor's job.

If you're into telling the contractor to put in his concrete first and once he does that he can have the steel drawings, have at it.

[chris.spenski]

I understand now. The firm I work for is all inclusive including construction management, minus an Architect, and typically there is so much work to be done in concrete and steel that they get their own sheets, plus it seems to help the contractor understand what we're doing by being able to show things separately.

[lzaras]

I'm having an issue convincing a coworker that putting all new concrete and steel on a single phase (New Construction) is a big mistake. I was hoping that you guys could bring up some reasons why or why not you think this is a problem. Thanks

I understand now. The firm I work for is all inclusive including construction management, minus an Architect, and typically there is so much work to be done in concrete and steel that they get their own sheets, plus it seems to help the contractor understand what we're doing by being able to show things separately.

In that case, back to your original question...
You probably *do* need separate concrete and steel phases. But, phases are usually used for the "timeline" of the project. So you'll probably need lots of them. So you might have a Concrete-Foundations phase before a Concrete-Ground-Floor-Columns or Steel-Ground-Floor-Columns phase. Then a Concrete-2nd-Floor-Beams or Steel-2nd-Floor-Beams phase... I can see so many phases to get a 24 story building complete! Good Luck!

Maybe you'd be better off using Worksets???

[chris.spenski]

Having it broken up like that would create absolute chaos for me. Fortunately, we just have an all concrete phase and an all steel phase, excluding existing of course. The project is then broken up into areas of work.

Thanks for your response and point of view.