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Thread: Internal Coordination

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    Certifiable AUGI Addict dhurtubise's Avatar
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    Default Internal Coordination

    I wanted to share some insight about something we do internally here and maybe get some other opinions.

    We are doing our own internal coordination using Revit. Basically one of our architect will open an already setup NWF and run the preset clash. Then will communicate the result to the team and we try to fix it. We thought it would be easier of our files were cleaner before we pass it on to discipline coordination

    So right now we are looking for some basic stuff
    Structure (Columns/Framings) vs Facade
    Floors vs Facade
    Doors vs Walls
    Stairs vs Floors



    2 questions
    1 - What do you think of the idea of having arch doing that?
    2 - Any other clash that could be useful?

    And of course any comments is more then welcome
    Last edited by dhurtubise; 2014-03-24 at 11:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Internal Coordination

    Not sure if the question is related to Arch only or clashing Arch v Struct prior to issuing to MEP.

    Arch v Struct checks that seem to be helpful (clearance test with two-inch allowance for steel fireproofing):

    Framing v Ceiling
    Column v Wall
    Door v All Struct
    Window v All Struct

    We group the above clash types as much as possible on a room by room basis, then create annotated viewpoints of specific issues to avoid asking downstream users to find needles in the haystack of clashes.

    Best,

    Joe M

    Facade check is great. Unfortunately steel connections are often not modeled until fabrication stage.

  3. #3
    Certifiable AUGI Addict dhurtubise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Internal Coordination

    The question was definitely gear toward architect. They usually tend to send the model away without looking for theyre own problems
    So it's all internal to the arch model.

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    All AUGI, all the time pauljordan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Internal Coordination

    Sorry to pop in late to the party but, I think there are some Rules that can save you a lot of chasing clashes..

    When you have structure and arch together, and you make clash sets out of those two, you'll find that anywhere a door frame (structural) touches the door (Archie), you'll have a clash.

    In this case, you can make rules that would pick out the door frames themselves and the doors as well. Tell the rule to ignore clashes between the two entities and your numbers will start to go down. Rules are an important feature of any clash detection scheme. Just don't go crazy trying to write a rule for 5 or 10 clashes that you could just accept in the review of all the clashes.

    I actually had one 'small wires' designer that wanted me to write two rules for the 4 clashes that were showing in the model. FOUR clashes when my daily clash reports were in the 5-6000 range. Yeah, I'll get right on that....
    Give a man AutoCad, and he'll draw you a floor plan.
    Give a man Revit and he'll build you a house.
    Give Cadmama a couple of drinks and she'll have everyone singing Rockytop!

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    Certifiable AUGI Addict dhurtubise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Internal Coordination

    That's true for inter-discipline coordination, in this we are doing arch only

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    All AUGI, all the time pauljordan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Internal Coordination

    Quote Originally Posted by dhurtubise View Post
    That's true for inter-discipline coordination, in this we are doing arch only
    Even for one discipline, the Rules will help. But, looking harder at your original post, I think what you need are selection sets for doors, walls, facade, floors, etc. and then you can clash the sets against each other giving you more related results to where you can have a collaboration meeting and tell the flooring archie that he's touching the walls, etc..

    The main thing to remember about all the clash sets and batches and rules you create to run on your model, you'll still need to fly around the model and look at things to make sure they fit.

    An example I saw was where we were ignoring piping penetrations through walls, knowing that we would be cutting access through the walls for the pipes. Writing a rule for that worked wonders, dropped the total down a good bit but, then, when flying around the model, I saw where there was a 6" pipe with about 2" of it buried in a wall. It didn't show as a clash!!

    The disciplines tend to be a good bit hard headed when it comes to this fancy new software. They'll look for any reason to prove it wrong. You can find 5,000 clashes that are actual clashes in the model that are identified, sorted, viewpointed and plotted out by NavisWorks in a manner of a few minutes but, if there's one like I described above that slipped past your NavisRadar, the program is junk..
    Give a man AutoCad, and he'll draw you a floor plan.
    Give a man Revit and he'll build you a house.
    Give Cadmama a couple of drinks and she'll have everyone singing Rockytop!

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    Default Re: Internal Coordination

    My favorite example: piping software generated clashes where threaded or socketweld pipe engaged with the appropriate fittings. The faces they make when I drop a 100 page clash report on their desk (some people will just insist on a dead-tree version). I'd love to put in rules but like you say the real problems end up slipping through since there are no inherent "this is wrong" property to filter with.

  8. #8
    All AUGI, all the time pauljordan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Internal Coordination

    I had a 'process designer' that was the Project Managers wife. She came in and started putting insulation on all the piping and it wasn't connecting so it had gaps between the insulation all over the place. So she adjusted her elbows, fittings, you name it.. We went from about 850 clashes to 3400 over night when she loaded up her drawings..

    The PM was fit to be tied.. When I opened up the file causing all the chaos and looked up the open, it flashed on the screen in the meeting and I've never seen someone change a topic so fast..

    What's really fun is when you run a report and there are several clashes in one area and all you see is a 3' diameter duct, nothing running into it from the sides or anything.. Well, go INSIDE the duct.. Yep, 2 6" pipes, and a 12" pipe.. AND, they were clashing with each other.. I thought the clash was the ductwork itself.. Nope, it was the three pipes inside it..

    We should write a book.. Clash Horror Stories..
    Give a man AutoCad, and he'll draw you a floor plan.
    Give a man Revit and he'll build you a house.
    Give Cadmama a couple of drinks and she'll have everyone singing Rockytop!

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