Edit block in place glitch

[ASM78]

I would like to know if I'm losing my mind here. I almost exclusively use refedit to edit blocks in Autocad. There is an option in the refedit settings tab to lock objects not in working set. This setting is great. It prevents you from changing things outside of the block you're editing. I believe I have found a glitch in this setting.

I have a line that is not in a block, while editing a block I draw another line beginning from one end of that non-blocked line. If I select the new line and run pedit>join>all, it joins both lines into a polyline and brings the non-blocked line into the block. Try it and see if you can reproduce this. I have seen it happen with multiple co-workers now on both Autocad 2019 and Autocad LT 2019.

If I wanted the line to be in my block I would have used refset>add or ncopy. It's not very helpful having lines add themselves to your block.

Has anyone seen this before or heard of any acknowledgment of this from Autodesk? I'm not sure when it started but I can say it's definately been like this since Autocad 2017. I would guess as far back as 2013 even...

Any help would be great. Is there a setting that I am missing maybe?

[ASM78]

Bump. Anyone?

[cadtag]

That's not what I would consider a 'glitch', and it works exactly as I would expect. When you join a line to a pline, the line is now a segment of the pline object that was part of your block definition. Since the first item selected was part of your working set, the modified pline is also part of the working set. If you tried to do a join in the _other direction_, from the external line to the pline, then that ought to fail.

[ASM78]

cadtag,

Thanks for the reply! I appreciate you taking the time. I guess I disagree though. If I wanted to bring geometry in to my block I would use REFSET; ADD; like I always do. The idea that you can inadvertently add external geometry to your block seems like a glitch to me.

[CCarleton]

I think I see what you're talking about, but I agree with cadtag that this is working as intended.

I'm not a refedit user, I use the bedit command which may or may not be more useful to you. However, I tested the refedit command a bit and I see when I run the command it darkens out everything that's not part of the block which I believe is what you're talking about in regards to not impacting the block. If you run the join command it can bring them into the block, however the selection order matters. If you join the new line you drew in the refedit to an existing line it brings it into the block. If, on the other hand, you run the join command on the existing line first and then select the line you drew in the refedit and join them the opposite happens and it does not get drawn into the block, but rather gets removed from it.

This all seems to work as I'd expect. As a general rule when joining things together the properties of the first object you select is what gets carried over. If you want the line to be part of the block join the new line to the old lines, if you don't want them in the block then do the opposite. It obviously can't join the linework together and keep one part of it as the block and the other part not, so it has to make a decision on where the joined linwork goes and it's prioritizing that by the join order. That's fully how I'd expect to see it work.

Edit: Actually, when I read cadtag's post more fully I see he's spot on. I can't really find a way to justify this as a glitch since the way CAD is interpreting joining objects is how it's designed to do so. The purpose of being able to bring exterior objects into a block is probably desired by some group of people and this is how they'd do it. Just be cognitive of what join order you're using and you'll be fine.

[ASM78]

CCarleton,

I guess I'm the minority here. Oh well thanks for your input. I appreciate the explanation of how the join command works and I think you're right. Unfortunately, our office has this really handy custom command that we've set to run using a double click action for lines and polylines. This command automatically runs the join command on ALL geometry. This allows for very quick polyline creation. You have to be a little mindful to not join to unwanted geometry but worth the "risk" for the reward of quick polyline creation. I guess I expected refedit to filter out the unwanted geometry for me (after all it is all grayed out). Maybe I'll take it up with Autocad and see what they say.

Thanks for your help.

I think I see what you're talking about, but I agree with cadtag that this is working as intended.

I'm not a refedit user, I use the bedit command which may or may not be more useful to you. However, I tested the refedit command a bit and I see when I run the command it darkens out everything that's not part of the block which I believe is what you're talking about in regards to not impacting the block. If you run the join command it can bring them into the block, however the selection order matters. If you join the new line you drew in the refedit to an existing line it brings it into the block. If, on the other hand, you run the join command on the existing line first and then select the line you drew in the refedit and join them the opposite happens and it does not get drawn into the block, but rather gets removed from it.

This all seems to work as I'd expect. As a general rule when joining things together the properties of the first object you select is what gets carried over. If you want the line to be part of the block join the new line to the old lines, if you don't want them in the block then do the opposite. It obviously can't join the linework together and keep one part of it as the block and the other part not, so it has to make a decision on where the joined linwork goes and it's prioritizing that by the join order. That's fully how I'd expect to see it work.

Edit: Actually, when I read cadtag's post more fully I see he's spot on. I can't really find a way to justify this as a glitch since the way CAD is interpreting joining objects is how it's designed to do so. The purpose of being able to bring exterior objects into a block is probably desired by some group of people and this is how they'd do it. Just be cognitive of what join order you're using and you'll be fine.

[ervin_david]

Use _refset and remove the line from the working set, or add it if you wish.

[Tom Beauford]

Modify the lisp that's joining errant lines while using Refedit. Only join if (getvar "refeditname") returns nil.

[ASM78]

Great idea Tom. Unfortunately quite a few of our users are running LT and I don't think that will work with LT.

[ervin_david]

I'm using version 2018 and it does the same thing. I think Autocad is behaving as it should. We are telling Autocad to join a line to a polyline that is a part of a block. A line cannot be separate from a polyline inside of a block. If the line is not in the right position to join, it will not join. When you select "all", and the line is in the right position (end to end), it is the same as "add to the working set" and will become part of the block when saved. I wouldn't expect it to work any other way.