Archicad Pros and Cons

[Scott Hopkins]

As a Revit user and former ArchiCAD 6.5 user I always find it interesting to see how both programs are progressing. Equally interesting is what users are saying about each program. Occasionally I'll post a few statements from the ArchiCAD camp as a fun divestment for the users here to read. Perhaps I should not have labeled the posts "ArchiCAD Propaganda" but it was all meant in fun. In the long run I think the competition between Revit and ArchiCAD will greatly benefit both programs. Hopefully it will continue on for some time before Revit eventually squashes ArchiCAD: . In an effort to provide a more balanced look at ArchiCAD I culled some of the ArchiCAD Pros and Cons from past posts. A lot of the pros and cons are items that I liked or bothered me back when I was an ArchiCAD user.

RE: Top 10 We Like and Don't Like
• From: David Larrew (view other messages by this author)
• Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:40:47

!---------------
Steve,

As ArchiCAD stands today (not in any order)...

CONS:
1. PlotMaker as a separate program.
2. Non-dockable toolbars and palettes.
3. Lack of (usable) macro language (Visual Basic, etc.).
4. Price.
5. Lack of TRUE single key commands.
6. The need for Loading of Libraries.
7. Lack of OLE integration (don't even try to count PlotMaker's attempt).
8. Handling of font's (please give me 1 Arial, 1 Helvetica, 1...).
9. Handling of printing output (too much to explain).
10. File size.

PROS:
1. Easy and fun to use.
2. Great project database capabilities.
3. GDL.
4. Teamwork.
5. "Virtual Building" method (single file).
6. Excellent export file translation (.DWG, .DWF, .DXF, etc.).
7. Use of vertical Stories.
8. Time and money saved during "CD" phase.
9. 2D and 3D integration.
10. It's not an Autodesk product (I hate monopolies).


David Larrew, AIA, GDLA
A r c h i S o l u t i o n s
www.archisolutions.com


RE: Top 10 We Like and Don't Like
• From: Eric Batte (view other messages by this author)
• Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 06:49:30

!---------------
Steve,

Here's my list in no particular order.

Dont' like:
1. Cluttered user interface. The user experience is inconsistent
because of it. Check any office and you'll see palettes all over the
place. Everything is a floating window or palette and inherently has no
home.
2. Section/Elevation drawings aren't real-time and have limited
functionality (not all tools available in s/e)
3. PMKs! Yes, we now have linked views to the PLN, but they are still
PMKs published in the background. This prevents us from exporting DWGs
effectively from PlotMaker because PMKs are just dumb lines (no
objects, no dimensions, etc.). Likewise, because the PMKs must be
created by AC in the background this takes time but should be instant.
4. StairMaker. Inadequate for commercial steel stairs.
5. Scheduling. Current implementation of the Interactive Scheduler is
better than it has ever been, but still not good enough.
6. Everything should generate real-time, including sections,
elevations, 3D, schedules
7. Libraries. Difficult to manage and they must be "loaded" (whatever
that does). Loading entire libraries should not be needed (look at
Tiffeny and her 6000+ library parts!).
8. API is not free. This is deterring developers from developing
add-ons for ArchiCAD
9. Photorendering is completely below par for what we pay for.
10. No such thing as dimension or text "styles" that can be globally
defined


Like:
1. Teamwork
2. Working in AC feels more like being an architect than a draftsperson
3. Display options. Things like walls, doors, windows, etc. can be
displayed differently without drawing
4. PlotMaker. It has developed more into a true page layout application
that's very logical and easy to use.
5. GDL is the most useful, powerful and efficient programming language
and environment for CAD.
6. ArchiCAD is cross-platform which gives the users the choice of Mac
and/or Windows. Can't say that about anything from Autodesk.
7. Automatic drawing labeling (as in section/elevation/detail markers)
8. Excellent (perhaps the best) DWG compatibility from ArchiCAD. I've
heard that it's possibly better than Revit in DWG compatibility.
9. Publisher is a great tool for producing consistent output with one
or multiple users. For example it can be setup for producing DWG files
for all of you engineers and consultants with each one using different
versions of AutoCAD, layer settings, fonts, and saved to a different
folder. This must only be setup once in Publisher and subsequent DWG
exports are completely reliable, even from a novice.
10. Attribute manager let's you transfer attributes from one file to
another. Not perfect, but I haven't heard of a similar tool in otherCAD.




Eric Batte

RE: Top ten things we like and don't like
• From: Laurence (view other messages by this author)
• Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:10:44

!---------------
Good topic!
Just a few to add

PROS - Where do I start!
1.I used to HATE dimensioning, now I love it and provide enough dimensions
to sink a ship and the builders love it! I would like, though, to be able
to click on the dimension and by changing it the elements connected would
adjust.

2.3D editing with all of the many options to make this task quick and easy -
the Marquee Tool, 3D Display Options, Select Image Items Options etc.

3.The many library parts available. Generally, excellent - the Revit rep
tried to convince me that "GDL was only there for people to make money out
of because in Revit we can model our own library part as we need it!" He
was very biased and not at all willing to actually listen so I was trying to
explain, so did not waste too much time there. Point in case - DoorBuilder
WindowBuilder is an excellent and well detailed tool I would be extremely
disappointed without it's availability. If you don't have it, you are
missing out!

4.All of my working drawings are in full colour with a 3D view on nearly
every sheet to assist builders/suppliers to read the drawings. I discovered
how to get colour directly off the model onto the elevations and sections
without cutting and pasting plus I switch on some shadows for depth.
Everybody but everybody loves the presentation and the readability of this
form, (I nearly wet myself when I discovered the colour directly off the
model secrete!) and could not stop looking at the finished drawings for a
week!


CONS
1.Rebuild in sections/elevations is a slow process, particularly as the
model grows. I understand Revit does not require this function. Is this what
'Real Time' is?

2.Not enough intelligence built into the whole Roof building/modelling
routine. I have seen VectorWorks create a gable end or dutch gable simply by
nominating that wall prior to an automatic insertion of the roof. In fact,
I now remember also seeing this on a well-written Australian add-on to
AuotCAD, DRC Auto, in that any number of different roof styles can be
nominated and defined before the automatic roof insertion.

3.As an extension to the above roofing situation, I saw about 12 years ago
another AutoCAD add-on, APDesign, the generation of the entire gang-nail
truss system so that ANY section view would be complete within the roof
structure. Yes, I did say about 12 years ago. This is where I spend most
of my time editing sections. For the record, the RoofMaker Accessory does
not come anywhere near what I saw in comparison to the trussed roof framing
routine.

4.The same lack of capability in regard to Slab-on-ground construction. I
don't understand why this has not been addressed (that I am aware of) to
trace the outline (or magic wand), input a few parameters, and bingo,
slab-on-ground! This needs to be editable on specific sides as well.

I see the two items above (2+3) as nuts and bolts stuff that can really
improve general productivity. Bells and whistles are great, but these are
two items that are without question on virtually every building we all
design. Wish list please!

5.The minor but annoying vertical / horizontal dimension option after you
click to position, always get I wrong when in a rush.

Got to get back to work and edit those sections / elevations!


That'll do pig. That'll do.

Kind regards, Laurence Brill

[Djordje]

As a Revit user and former ArchiCAD 6.5 user I always find it interesting to see how both programs are progressing. Equally interesting is what users are saying about each program.

Good examples found, Scott!

Don't know if you looked at 8.0 or 8.1 - very far cry from 6.5 I might say?

Is there a place in this forum where we could get more user feedback on Revit like the ones you quoted? The stuff that users complain about and ask are generally similar in both forums (not surprising, both softwares being based on similar concepts).

And, please let's refrain from "squashing" remarks, with or without smilies. You would not be very happy if I now reminded you that you would not have Revit today if it were not bought by Autodesk, would you?

That is beside the point. The point is we are in the same BIM boat, precariously floating in the stormy Flatland ocean, and if anybody is squashed, that is not good for any of us, and even worse for the industry!

[beegee]

And, please let's refrain from "squashing" remarks, with or without smilies. You would not be very happy if I now reminded you that you would not have Revit today if it were not bought by Autodesk, would you?

Djorde,

One of the great things about this forum is that we have a good sense of humour and use that often to lighten otherwise dry and serious discussion.

Neither Scott, nor anyone else is seriously suggesting than Revit is going to squash Archicad, nor are they trying to offend you. I've read some of your posts in the ArchiCAD-Talk forum, concerning Revit and they could be construed to be even more inflammatory than Scott's. So let's leave it at that.

This is a Revit forum and we obviously feel strongly about the merits of this software, but we aren't completely one eyed either.

Is there a place in this forum where we could get more user feedback on Revit like the ones you quoted?

Try the Wishlist forum to see what users have been requesting to include in future releases.

[ajayholland]

As a former ArchiCad user, all I can say is that AC is the best BIM program for the Mac. But I also know Macintosh users who bought their first PC just to be able to use Revit.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no competition between Revit and AC or Triforma. The competition is between BIM users and those who obstinately stick with their curreent flat-cad methodology. When the choice is finally to be made, the overwhelming majority (acad users) will undoubtedly choose Revit.

All your base...

-AJH

[Scott Hopkins]

Whoops! Sorry Djordje. I didn't mean offend. I was just trying to get a little chuckle. I thought the smiley face would have indicated that. Beegee is certainly right about the plethora of inflammatory anti-Revit posts on the ArchiCAD discussion board. With all of the half truths, misinformation and blatant lies being told about Revit, one could even go so far as to call it Propaganda. I might add that you Djordje are as guilty of this as anyone on that board. When you demand a fair and balanced discussion you should hold yourself to that same standard.

[Djordje]

Whoops! Sorry Djordje. I didn't mean offend. I was just trying to get a little chuckle.

Sorry to you guys too, have to get used to the local customs

Beegee is certainly right about the plethora of inflammatory anti-Revit posts on the ArchiCAD discussion board.

Hm ... plethora ... OK

With all of the half truths, misinformation and blatant lies being told about Revit, one could even go so far as to call it Propaganda. I might add that you Djordje are as guilty of this as anyone on that board. When you demand a fair and balanced discussion you should hold yourself to that same standard.

Quite so.

I heard stuff about ArchiCAD (and read it here, not to mention revitcity - some might call that marketing) that are as blatantly wrong and misleading.

The problem is - get a demo of a complex application (Revit or ArchiCAD, the same), try it, don't get over an obstacle or don't understand a method or a feature - hey presto, bashing. Happens too often to all of us. Heck, we hardly have the time to glean out all the stuff about the sofware we daily use, just look at the wishlists and questions, who has the time to invest in "competiton"?

Therefore - sorry if you felt that I was "bashing", no intention there. Shall we call it lack of information? Now that we opened the communication channels, I hope, that should not happen any more. Maybe you don't know, but I am notorious for making my choice for daily work, but also trying to get to know what happens to the "other" side.

Thanks for the pointer, beegee, will take a look.

Let's BIM,

Djordje

[spSmith]

I would like to see a positive, professional level of communication continue. What has been interesting to me, is to see the comments get over the "bashing" hump and move into a true constructive conversation!

Many people in these two forums (Revit & ArchiCAD) are very loyal to their product, so you are a fabulous resource for us BIM Newbies. The two things I have learned in looking at both programs is that :

1) Both programs are great and neither, in itself, is better than the other. Instead, one may be a better fit for a given firm based upon that firm's own design/documentation process. We will try both - and we may stick with both since every project and team will have different requirements.

2) What is good now will be different in the future. Each program has made such tremendous leaps and bounds in just their latest realeses alone - add in the maturation of BIM in the architectural practice and construction industries and who knows where it will be in 5 years! Within our office, I am taking the stance that whatever application we decide on for now, is just that "for now."

Thank you
Shaun

BTW: I am posting this to both forums.

[Wes Macaulay]

In Revit R6 the developers were aiming to make their means of sharing the database more like ArchiCAD's. The concept of borrowing objects from other model worksets was an idea inspired by Teamwork on ArchiCAD. There's obviously aspects of each platform that are superior or cooler than the other's. And hopefully, shrinkwrap license laws notwithstanding, we'll see features from one program that are really great appearing in some fashion in the other. Not parroting or copying, but truly analysing how designers work and improving workflow at every step.

I would claim that from a usability standpoint Revit is better, but developers would be fools to stray long from being over their users' shoulders, watching them work and asking questions about how they ought to develop new features or improve old ones. You would have to do this statistically since users will often disagree on how best to complete a task!

ArchiCAD users are truly our friends, and we ought not to bash anyone's favorite CAD platform. Even though, tatooed in 48pt Helvetica bold on my t-shirt, it says:

YOUR FAVOURITE CAD PLATFORM SUCKS.

Got Revit?

But whatever, eh? It matters more that we are all watching to see how these tools develop. If Revit began to tank and another program came out that was obviously superior, I would obviously jump ship. And since familiarity in this case breeds contempt for other programs, I'm always forcing myself to try and understand how other programs (like BOA, for instance) work. We do well to keep our minds open.

So.. sleeping in the Autodesk Matrix, anyone? Which pill I am supposed to swallow, anyway? I guess if this is Autodesk I'm supposed to swallow the BLUE pill... HA!!

[gregcashen]

ArchiCAD users are truly our friends, and we ought not to bash anyone's favorite CAD platform. Even though, tatooed in 48pt Helvetica bold on my t-shirt, it says:

YOUR FAVOURITE CAD PLATFORM SUCKS.

Got Revit?

I didn't realize the Zoog filters converted the word @$$ to t-shirt!

[Djordje]

[quote:c6f04020c8="metanoia"]ArchiCAD users are truly our friends, and we ought not to bash anyone's favorite CAD platform. Even though, tatooed in 48pt Helvetica bold on my t-shirt, it says:

YOUR FAVOURITE CAD PLATFORM SUCKS.

Got Revit?

I didn't realize the Zoog filters converted the word @$$ to t-shirt![/quote:c6f04020c8]

Must be a wide @$$, oops, TShirt, to accommodate all the text ...