Description Key setting for 0 or Null/Blank elevation?

[hlambing715030]

Is there a way to set up a Description Key to automatically put field shot points that have either a zero elevation or Null/Blank elevation on to a layer say DNP (Do Not Plot)
So they don't show up when plotting a topo with the spot elevations turned on. But are still in the drawing so the engineer knows why the line was drawn the way it was.

[Tom Beauford]

For Surface Properties on the Definition tab you can specify a range of elevations. You'll need to do that as well as those points will be used by the surface even if they're on a frozen layer that doesn't display. What's the point of having Topo points set to display elevation without correct elevations? We have Description Key Codes for points like property corners that are often not at ground level, but would never include those in a surface or label their elevation.

Garbage in → garbage out. You're going to have issues until you work on your styles and settings.

[rmk]

not sure if description key codes can do that as far as using the elevation to control where it goes, i could be wrong.
i would use a point group and select points matching elevation of 0. you could control how they display that way.

[Tom Beauford]

I would edit the point file to remove those points or assign them proper codes. Then recreate the drawing from scratch. Repeat if necessary. My boss likes to look at elevation labels for all surface points to design drainage so I'll right-click the Surface point group and click Select, the use the Properties Palette to set Point Label Style to one that displays only the Elevation. Only take a few seconds to do things like.

[hlambing715030]

I understand how to tell a surface to ignore these points. That's easy.
Our Field Crews shoot things like light poles, fence corners and such but are not always easy to get the elevation due to other items in the way so they shoot it for location purpose only.
But when I plot the topo with elevations turned on, the null/0 point shows up as just a point "+" or block used per description key definition even though there is no elevation associated with the point.
My Engineers don't like the point to show up if there is no elevation associated with the point.

Tom Beauford P.S.M Per your comment "We have Description Key Codes for points like property corners that are often not at ground level, but would never include those in a surface or label their elevation."
Us too but these automatically go to either traverse layer or monumentation layer. And I turn them off for the engineers.

How exactly do you handle these types of points. Telling a surface to ignore pcodes or a ranges of points is easy.
But how do you get ACAD to not show some points that have good elevations but use the same pcode as other points with bad elevations.
Is there something in styles I'm missing that would automatically use a marker style of none or a dot for the null/0 elev points but still use the proper marker for the same pcode when an elevation is correct.

[Tom Beauford]

Tom Beauford P.S.M Per your comment "We have Description Key Codes for points like property corners that are often not at ground level, but would never include those in a surface or label their elevation."
Us too but these automatically go to either traverse layer or monumentation layer. And I turn them off for the engineers.

How exactly do you handle these types of points. Telling a surface to ignore pcodes or a ranges of points is easy.
But how do you get ACAD to not show some points that have good elevations but use the same pcode as other points with bad elevations.
Is there something in styles I'm missing that would automatically use a marker style of none or a dot for the null/0 elev points but still use the proper marker for the same pcode when an elevation is correct.

There's no fix for when points that have no elevation are set up to be on the same layer as points that require elevations. Were they incorrectly coded in the field? What is the purpose of these points with no elevations?

My template has Layer States including "Plan" to display as a completed drawing, "Linework" includes all linework and points used to create them in case someone used EOR1 where EOR2 should be, and one that displays all points used to create a surface to find mistakes when contours don't come out right. Displaying exactly what you need for any situation should be easy if the field work, Description Key Codes, and Layer States are OK.

[CCarleton]

TMK Description Keys are code driven, not able to be dictated by other areas like northing, easting, elevation, etc.

I don't think (or know of) a way to get null points into a point group via properties. As RMK suggested If it were me I would review the point files and set null elevations to 0 (or whatever elevation) and use a point group searching for that specified elevation to populate all the codes, then you can select them all and swap them to a DNP layer.

Is there something in styles I'm missing that would automatically use a marker style of none or a dot for the null/0 elev points but still use the proper marker for the same pcode when an elevation is correct.

Just going to point something out here...how is AutoCAD supposed to know when an elevation is correct or not? If you're going to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish you pretty much are looking at having to use absolutes to the effect of if it's 0 then not correct, if anything else then correct. CAD isn't going to figure it out past that.

Now maybe if you want to use point groups this way you can put a zero elevation point group up at the top of your group list and that could look to a DNP point style, but again it's not going to work for null elevations. And if those point codes that are set to elevation 0 are being driven to specific styles due to the code used then point groups won't override them so going back to the above your best bet is to A) Make sure your they specify elevation 0 if it's bad, and/or B) Review the code file first and put nulls at elevation 0. After that you're golden if you use a point group that populates based on elevation 0 because you'll be able to quickly select them all and swap them to a DNP layer like you want.

[hlambing715030]

We used to have the field crews use a - (Negative sign) with the pcode and ACAD knew not to use that elevation in our surface but since we updated to ACAD C3D in 2010 we can't seem to get it to work.
Up until that time we had an In-House program for making surfaces.
I've tried using a wildcard but I'm either doing something wrong or its just not possible on C3D

[CCarleton]

We used to have the field crews use a - (Negative sign) with the pcode and ACAD knew not to use that elevation in our surface but since we updated to ACAD C3D in 2010 we can't seem to get it to work.
Up until that time we had an In-House program for making surfaces.
I've tried using a wildcard but I'm either doing something wrong or its just not possible on C3D

That sounds more like point group managing than the DKS. Our template is set up with the DKS, and then I have an existing point group that looks for specific codes which is already referenced in to the surface. So after importing I have to update my point groups which updates my existing point group which updates the surface. It sounds like you had the surface setup to ignore codes with a hyphen in it, which should totally be doable in C3D by using the exclude tab of the point group used to build the surface.

Edit: There's a thousand ways to skin this cat. My personal preference is to build the surface out of specific codes that should ALWAYS be elevation shots (ground shot, edge of material, slope shots, etc), and not include anything that usually is, but may not be. So our surface doesn't even build off building shots, trees, fences, utility structures, etc. We made that switch about a year ago or so and haven't really had any difficulties, I very rarely add in other shots to complete the surface out if there's a lack of information.

[Tom Beauford]

We used to have the field crews use a - (Negative sign) with the pcode and ACAD knew not to use that elevation in our surface but since we updated to ACAD C3D in 2010 we can't seem to get it to work.
Up until that time we had an In-House program for making surfaces.
I've tried using a wildcard but I'm either doing something wrong or its just not possible on C3D

Years ago we upgraded to Civil 3D from using Eagle Point where coding was completely different, you would have the same issue switching from Carlson or any other software for bringing in field data.

Plenty of info in Civil 3D help for getting started: http://help.autodesk.com/view/CIV3D/...0-F7439B7FF75F