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Thread: mass element error

  1. #1
    Super Moderator david_peterson's Avatar
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    Default mass element error

    While trying to adjust a thickness on my foundation I received this error

    *** Unknown error occures by create ME brep VERTEX grips.
    *** Unknown error occures by create ME brep EDGE grips.

    Anyone seen this before?
    Dose this mean I have to cut, add, subtract, and union a bunch of stuff so as I can move my wall.
    I've attached a copy of the file
    If anyone has any better ideas on how to create this type of geometry, I'm all ears.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Time Lord Steve_Bennett's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    If I understand what the note in the dwg file said, I moved the wall face 4" north (towards the top of the screen in plan view). I assumed by thickness you were refering to the note in the dwg., not thickness in relationship to a vertical dimension. Here is your file back. Wall face moved 4" north.

    Now I'm doing your work for you.

    Here's what I did using ADT2k5 SP1 w/ XP Pro (w/ all updates), 2.4ghzP4 w/ 1.25ram & 32meg video.

    I went to a SW iso view & zoomed to the area that needed modification. If you hover over the dark grey dot, you will see which face is being selected & if tooltips are on you'll get some info about modifying it. I selected the dot & used ctrl to cycle (3 hits) until I got to Move Plane. Then using direct distance entry I entered 4" at the command line & hit enter. Done.

    Of course you probably already know all this, otherwise you wouldn't of been able to generate that crazy a** mass element in the first place (this is more for the benifit of others). What this does tell me is that there might be something wrong on your end software/hardware wise. Have you tried restarting the computer? Working from your hard drive?

    As far as your other question on how to do this stuff, well, I'm almost afraid to ask, but, how in the world did you do that??? I had no idea you could do that with a mass element!!! As Darth Vader once said: "Impressive. Most Impressive." I would need some kind of idea as to how you got where you did in order to even begin to think about different ideas on doing what you did. What a sec. OMG - you even have display configs to change stuff on this thing!!!! This is way cool. You've made my day with this file!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Steve_Bennett; 2005-04-27 at 05:05 AM. Reason: Attached file
    Steve Bennett |BIM Manager
    Taylor Design | Adventures in BIM

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    Super Moderator david_peterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    Well, I'm not sure why you were able to get this to work. Might be something with the order in which I was modifying the element. The main reason I think this error came up was, in order to move that face, ADT would need to create another face in the process.
    The way I got around it (it's not the first time I've run into a face I couldn't move) Is to just add another element chunk to to and union on side to create the new plane and union it. Think of it just like form work. If you are out in the field and you need to modify a piece of concrete, you either put up new formwork and dowel in to the existing, or you bust out the jackhammer cut it away. When I was first introduced to this version, we received training from the "Great Paul Aubin". I had a foundation corner that he suggested I use walls and modifiers on, I told him mass elements or slabs would work better. He could not produce the geometry with walls. I figure if he can't do it, I'm not even going to try. It takes some time and patience, but it can be done.
    As far as how to create it, I just applied the KISS (Keep it stupid simple) mentality to what I know about ADT. If I were to draw a foundation in base acad I'd draw a line. Well in this case I created the out line using polylines. Then, set the elevation, use the mass element tool to apply to linework, or just right click on it and covert it. The idea is to start small. I pline for the wall set, 1 pline for each footing. Set your depths and union them together. Just like solids, Add and subtract. If you liked that file here a neat little block (mass element) any structural guy should love; A stepped footing. You can actually drag this guy onto a tool pallet and have the basic geometry for a footing step at your finger tips.
    It'd be nice if we had a dumping ground for these kinds of things much like that other program. "ADT Parts and Pieces Forum"????????
    I know there are people out there have done some crazy things with ADT objects.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Super Moderator david_peterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    Here's the only major Issue I've had with large mass elements. My I may have done something wrong creating it. After -wblock it out, or copy and paste it into a new drawing it worked out. Of course it's about 10 times more complex now. But you can see this link for another use of mass elements, foundation walls.

    http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=17795

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    Time Lord Steve_Bennett's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    Quote Originally Posted by david_peterson
    Well, I'm not sure why you were able to get this to work. Might be something with the order in which I was modifying the element. The main reason I think this error came up was, in order to move that face, ADT would need to create another face in the process.
    Not techinically. When you cycle through 3 times, you are still in the move portion of modifying the element. Yes, it has to add a face over towards the left side of the screen, but it's still in the move part of modifying it.
    Quote Originally Posted by david_peterson
    The way I got around it (it's not the first time I've run into a face I couldn't move) Is to just add another element chunk to to and union on side to create the new plane and union it. Think of it just like form work. If you are out in the field and you need to modify a piece of concrete, you either put up new formwork and dowel in to the existing, or you bust out the jackhammer cut it away. When I was first introduced to this version, we received training from the "Great Paul Aubin". I had a foundation corner that he suggested I use walls and modifiers on, I told him mass elements or slabs would work better. He could not produce the geometry with walls. I figure if he can't do it, I'm not even going to try. It takes some time and patience, but it can be done.
    Gosh! Luckyyy. You got trained by Paul Aubin! His books are what I learned alot of stuff about ADT from.
    Quote Originally Posted by david_peterson
    As far as how to create it, I just applied the KISS (Keep it stupid simple) mentality to what I know about ADT. If I were to draw a foundation in base acad I'd draw a line. Well in this case I created the out line using polylines. Then, set the elevation, use the mass element tool to apply to linework, or just right click on it and covert it. The idea is to start small. I pline for the wall set, 1 pline for each footing. Set your depths and union them together. Just like solids, Add and subtract. If you liked that file here a neat little block (mass element) any structural guy should love; A stepped footing. You can actually drag this guy onto a tool pallet and have the basic geometry for a footing step at your finger tips.
    Although some might agree to keep ADT stupid, I think I would rather say Keep It Simple, Stupid. I had a feeling it might have something to do with plines, but I really wasn't sure how you got to the complexity level that you did. Thanks for elaborating!

    Do you feel this takes any longer than just drawing dumb lines in acad or do you think it's a wash?
    Quote Originally Posted by david_peterson
    It'd be nice if we had a dumping ground for these kinds of things much like that other program. "ADT Parts and Pieces Forum"????????
    I know there are people out there have done some crazy things with ADT objects.
    I know what you mean (thanks for not mentioning the "R" word!!). As far as sharing styles, mass elements, etc. right now the best thing we have is the exchange portion of AUGI. You can post stuff in there by software platform and some ADT stuff already exists. Perhaps you would like to post this request in the Forum Feedback portion of AUGI? If not, I will. The styles forum for ADT kinda works, but not really as there are more questions than content posted.
    Steve Bennett |BIM Manager
    Taylor Design | Adventures in BIM

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    Super Moderator david_peterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    From a structural stand point (as we have not yet fully implemented, so we are not using the sections and such. If we were, I could see this helping us a lot. As we deal with very complex foundations and slab. So it can help with mep coordination) I think it's a waste of time for the most part. It takes much longer to model than draw line. But when you take the time to start to model this these thing, you tend to notice your problems a lot faster.

    When it comes to framing and such, I almost think that should be a wash either way. When corrd w/ mep, most of the mep firms I've dealt with just as for the deepest section in that area and work around it. However, one project that I worked on, that was very MEP intensive, the MEP firm requested it, and that how we got started with ADT.

    I just got my free copy of that other program. On my own time, I'm going to find out if it can stand up to the challenge of these type of complex foundations.

    Just for kicks I'm going to attach the walls that are going to be above the footing plan I posted earlier. I know for a fact that this would be pert near impossible using walls, and trying to get them to clean up. I still have to add the stepping brick ledge on the east side, but at least there I can take an elevation of it to get me started after word. This has style modifications as well, even the correct material.

    All in all, I'd say there is some benefit to this. We had to start straight out of the box, with basically no changes to the original, so at times I spend more time creating styles and trying to figure out what the heck I'm trying to do. The nice part is, if you get down to crunch time, at least I can just start throwing lines at my view file until I get my desired result.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #7
    I could stop if I wanted to neje's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    Was interested to take a look butIcan;t seem to download the file. Is there a trick to this?
    On this thread and "display help"

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    Super Moderator david_peterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    I'll post it again.
    Not sure where the link went, but it may just have been lost over time.
    Let me know if you have any questions.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Dave Peterson
    BIM Coordinator

    Acad - 2019 - Revit 2020 w/ BIM 360 - Navisworks - 3ds 2020 - Ensacpe - Lumion - Win 7 64 - i7-8086K 4.0GHz 32GB Ram - Nvidia Quadro P2000
    "The more you know, the less you know, because the more you know you don't know". --M. Lin

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    100 Club dhallett's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    I have not been able to open any of the drawings in this post except the last one. Is there a time limit on these attachments?

  10. #10
    Super Moderator david_peterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: mass element error

    The did kind of re-build the site a few years back, after the original post was made.
    I'll have to ask the question to the BOD.
    Dave Peterson
    BIM Coordinator

    Acad - 2019 - Revit 2020 w/ BIM 360 - Navisworks - 3ds 2020 - Ensacpe - Lumion - Win 7 64 - i7-8086K 4.0GHz 32GB Ram - Nvidia Quadro P2000
    "The more you know, the less you know, because the more you know you don't know". --M. Lin

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