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Thread: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

  1. #1
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    Default Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    Revit Structure is a great tool for structural design and analysis. What about detailing, whether done within the same firm that did the design and analysis or sent out to another firm?

    Are the detailers expected to recreate the structure manually in xsteel (now tekla) or a similar package which costs perhaps 10 times as much? If that's the case, why buy Revit Structure when they could just do it all in xsteel? Even if Revit Structure 3 had the ability to export to xsteel, that would be one small step forward.

    I don't know much about the steel industry, but I've seen the connection and cutsheet capabilities of xsteel.

    Revit ships with two connections!! If they can ship a full set of steel beam families, why not a more complete set of connections? I know I can create my own. But why should I and 500 other people create our own connections if they could just ship pre-made with Revit? It's not a lot to ask for.

    A lot to ask for would be to have Revit automatically choose the right (default) connector size based on me selecting a connector type and then picking on two objects (for example, a beam and the column it connects to). That's what xsteel will do, and for $50,000 (or whatever) it better.

    As far as xsteel's auto-generated cutsheets go: It would seem that cutsheets with automatic dimensioning and so on would be an easy enough feature for Revit to include. I know that cutsheets can be manually created in Revit, but does anyone really want to create 30 of them, let alone 2000 for a larger project?

    If someone from the factory or otherwise could enlighten me on these things, I'd much appreciate it.

    Thanks in advance,
    Rob

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    Default Re: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    I agree 100%. I waited very patiently for the release of Revit Structure and
    needless to say I was quit disappointed.

    I too have seen Tekla in action and its capabilities blew me away. Revit
    Structure/Revit Building won't even dimension to the center of a circle, let
    alone automatically create connections/mitres.

    I hope in the next release Autodesk concentrates solely on the detailing
    capabilities in RS.

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    NavisWorks Moderator david.kingham's Avatar
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    Default Re: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    Things must be different up north, around here structure works very well for the structural engineers, our engineers create fairly simple drawings and the fabricators do all the connections and what not. Structure was built for structural engineers, not fabricators. I'm sure something will come along but it will be a long time, they simply have too much on their plate to develop that sort of program.

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    Default Re: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    David:

    It might be different up here. There are a number of large firms who do the whole job from design and analysis, to detailing, to fabricating and installing.

    It's good that Structure works for your structural engineers. However, how do your engineers communicate their simple drawings to the fabricators? Export to .dwg? Or send them plotted sheets?

    In either case, I think there would be a gap where data has to be recreated, instead of being reused. Granted, it's not your firm that has to do the recreating, but unless the fabricators can open up Revit drawings and use them (which is not likely the case), they'll have to use something else like tekla or pro-steel and input the whole structure again.

    You mention that "they simply have too much on their plate..." If they won't be creating more content (like connections) and are not going to be creating a cutsheet feature, just what is the Revit Structure part of the factory working on?

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    All AUGI, all the time Arnel Aguel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    That was my expectation too that RS functions more or less as Tekla structures complete with detailing modules. If you are going to look at the feature overview of RS it does not say it is for structural analysis only it shows that it can do details of steel connection and even concrete detailings.

    However as we all know RS is at its very first realeased and I believe that they will improve the capabilities to match or even surpass the power of tekla structure which has been in the industry for more than a decade.

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    NavisWorks Moderator david.kingham's Avatar
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    Default Re: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    Hey Rob, I definately understand what you're asking for and I would love to see it too, when the day comes that we can have every bit of information in revit I will be a happy man You need to remember that this is the first release of structure and it fits the needs of most structural engineers in the states. That's what the developers were aiming for in these first releases. I know the day will come when it surpasses tekla.
    What I mean by the developers have a lot on there plate is simply the fact that they are developing a lot of products at the same time...constantly making huge uprgrades to building, developing structure, mechanical....and they probably have even more that we don't know about.
    Right now revit structure is meant to be a very good replacement for acad. It's meant to do good drawings and build a 3d model at the same time that can be brought into the architects revit model for collision detection, and to have full coordination between the architect and engineer.

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    Default Re: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    I, residing in Europe, follow the forum already for a while. The expectations for RS were great. We also saw RS as a opponent of Tekla Structures. Making 3D is nice but only gives you the possibility to express your design intent. Whithout a good detailling feature RS in Europe is worthless. Alternatives, with less potential = based on ADT, are available with a lot more functionallity. We, egineers, have to make the design and the detailling = Construction Drawings( drawings on wich the execution is based). Shop drawings for steel, is the only part worked out by the contractor. So the developpers of RS have a lot of work to do before making a usefull release in Europe.

    Jm

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    Default Re: Structural design/analysis ... but no detailing??

    Hi

    Today exists several software that resolve a 3d building model plus structural detailing e.g. Tekla Structure, Allplan Engineering, my wish is for autodesk revit developer team focused to concerete detaling ( reinforcing concrete) and steel structures.
    The excellent 3d modeler tools existing, more a lot of detailer tools would be very good for revit.


    Milton

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