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Thread: Recommended desktops for Revit

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Quote Originally Posted by irusun
    No, not really.

    Some of the high-end AMD chips, like the FX-62, will keep up with the Duos, but based on price and efficiency, the Duos really clocked the X2 this time around.

    Put together a couple of FX-74 chips on the AMD 4x4 platform (dual cores on dual sockets), and you'll have a pretty fast system - but for that kind of money, my opinion is that you'd still be better off with a single Intel Core Quad, or dual (Core2 based) Xeon chips.
    I simply quiver at the thought of machines like these, with 8-16G of ram, a 1G D3D card and a multi-threaded, 64 bit, Direct3D 10 Revit. I wake up sweating from the dreams! Then we will complain about wanting to have the actual 3D metal roofing profile built into the roof family. Who knows, maybe we will model the Coravent so we can calculate actual air flow

    Gordon

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    I am running Revit 9.1 on a Xeon 3.20GHz with the 3GB switch within Windows XP. I am trying to work with a 28MB local file from my C-drive and opening this file takes in excess of 20 minutes (and freezing my computer in the process). I've checked task manager and my System Idle is around 96% on average, Revit is around 2-4%. I can't get a read on what is happening...

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    This is probably not the appropriate place to post this. If you want a better response to your question, start a new thread (since your question is a trouble-shooting question, not a comment/request on a hardware purchase).

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Trying to check on current thinking on this issue.
    Thanks to all who have posted here so far as the reading has been of critical importance to me.
    About to update (finally) myself.

    Rough Specs:
    Intel core 2 Duo 2.8 mhz
    Asus PCI express, 1074 mhz motherboard / SATA etc.
    2 x 76 Gb Seagate Cheetah 10k.7 SATA SCSI 10,000 rpm hard drives
    4 Gb DDR 1Ghz RAM
    NVidia Quadro FX 1500 256 Mb PCI Express video card, 2 dvi etc.
    700 watt power supply
    DVD / CD combo reader writer drive
    no Raid configuration, but agree with the construct of having the OS (and windows paging file ) on one drive, and all data on the other drive, and then a 500Gb external drive, synched for (15 minute or whatever) backup archive.
    Windows XP Pro, later to upgrade to Vista Business possibly.


    Questions:
    I note people talking about matching the RAM clock speed, with the FSB clock speed for a 1Ghz motherboard = 533 mhz RAM ? Can you break that down into what this is as opposed to having a 1Ghz clock speed RAM ? I am not a techie !!


    As time goes on......can people please confirm that the NVidia Quadro FX1500 256 Mb PCI express card is a flyer for Revit. In NZ, this card costs $1000 NZ. I can not afford to make a mistake with this. I want the speed and quality but the FX4500 or 4600 are just stupid prices at $2300 NZ plus !!! for the 1 Gb cards..pity....I prefer to go with a Quadro over anything else if possible.


    Does anyone know what real value there is in the 10k spinner drives over the 7200.10 drives ? Reading the specs, the rate for the 10k spinner is 350 Mb/sec, over the 7200 rpm drive of 300 Mb/sec. For my needs (light industrial, light commercial and residential) the throughput might not be that important, however, I am mindful of continual developments broadly speaking .


    thanks heaps for any input.
    regards
    trombe

  5. #85
    AUGI Addict iru69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Quote Originally Posted by trombe
    Trying to check on current thinking on this issue...
    thanks heaps for any input.
    regards
    trombe
    Are you building this yourself or is this from a local seller?

    There is no 2.8GHz Core 2 that I'm aware of. Can you check your specs?
    1074MHz doesn’t really make sense either, though it may be listed for over-clockers.

    The RAM speed / bus speed / CPU speed can get a bit confusing. It all works on multipliers.

    The CPU speed is locked by a multiplier related to the bus speed which is related to the RAM speed. You’ll see the front-side bus listing of 1066 MHz, which is really a quad pumped 266 MHz bus. A 2.66 GHz cpu has a locked multiplier of 10 (2660 MHz / 266 MHz bus). A 2.93 GHz cpu has a multiplier of 11 (2930 MHz / 266 MHz). That’s how you can tell that both the speed you listed for the Core 2 and the bus speed are not standard (overclocking is essentially increasing the bus speed to increase the CPU speed, e.g. you raise the bus speed from 266 MHz to 280 MHz, and your 2.66 GHz cpu is now running at 2.8 GHz - 280 MHz * 10 multiplier). Some of the upper end Xeon systems use a 1333 MHz front side bus (actual bus speed at 333 MHz – so a 3.0GHz Xeon has a multiplier of 9).

    In order to get the most efficient RAM timings, you want the multiplier of the RAM speed to be an even integer of the bus speed. So, if you have a 1066 MHz bus, you’d want 533MHz RAM. If you had a 1333 MHz bus, you’d want 667 MHz RAM. If you place 667 MHz RAM on a 1066 MHz bus, you end up with an odd interleave which means your system could potentially be slower than if you had 533 MHz RAM.

    You’ve listed SCSI hard drives... this is *way* overkill for a personal workstation. Really, the only place for SCSI drives is on servers and extremely disk intensive applications (think professional movie editing). The advantage SCSI still has over SATA is that SCSI can handle multiple I/O better. An analogy might be a highway – SCSI and SATA have similar speed limits, but SCSI has more lanes. But unless you depend on opening and saving multiple files at the same time, SCSI is just not a good value.

    Typical 7.2K SATA drives are fine for most of us. If you’re hell bent on getting faster drives to shave a few seconds off of load and save times, go for the Western Digital Raptors – 10K SATA drives. You’ll pay twice as much than a typical hard drive, but maybe it’s worth it to you.

    My recommendation would be to get two had drives in a RAID 1 (mirror) setup. Create a ~40GB partition for Windows and apps, and the rest as a partition for data. Buy two external backup hard drives and rotate them out on a weekly basis.

    I can’t comment on which FX1500 card to get, maybe someone else here can. But is there any reason you feel you need an FX1500 instead of an FX5xx or an ATI V3xxx?

    Eidt: Also, that sounds like an insane amount of PSU wattage for those specs - you'd be better off getting a smaller but high quality and more efficient PSU.
    Last edited by iru69; 2007-04-07 at 12:01 AM.

  6. #86
    Revit Arch. Wishlist Mgr. Wes Macaulay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Trombe, you're wasting money on that video card. We have reports that the PNY FX540 is working fine, and that will cost you much less money. Also see if you can get ATI FireGL V3100 or V3400 -- that would also suffice.

    Recent tests of more costly video cards on this forum have demonstrated that expensive video cards are a waste of time with Revit.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Hi irusun and Wes,

    thanks guys, awesome help.

    [QUOTE=irusun]Are you building this yourself or is this from a local seller?

    I am getting a wholesaler to make it up for me as they did for my current reliable pc, then sold via a local reseller. Once deal is struck, I will filter down to nitty gritty.



    There is no 2.8GHz Core 2 that I'm aware of. Can you check your specs?
    1074MHz doesn’t really make sense either, though it may be listed for over-clockers.

    I found that value either on Pricespy.co.nz or another current listing and noted it down, although will check again. These things seem to move so fast development wise !!.


    The RAM speed / bus speed / CPU speed can get a bit confusing. It all works on multipliers. In order to get the most efficient RAM timings, you want the multiplier of the RAM speed to be an even integer of the bus speed. So, if you have a 1066 MHz bus, you’d want 533MHz RAM.

    OK have asked that question today and figure this will be resolved but good to know a little bit about the background reasoning.


    You’ve listed SCSI hard drives... this is *way* overkill for a personal workstation. Really, the only place for SCSI drives is on servers and extremely disk intensive applications

    Well (this will freak you all out) my current 6.5 year old computer with a 733 mhz Intel Coppermine PC 133 SDRAM and 512 Mb 133 RAM.......and a cheap GeForce 4 , 64 Mb card had a 7200 Barracuda drive originally, when 5400 spinners were still acceptable....but some future proofing is needed as I am a sole practitioner and don't have the latitude to buy a new pc every 2-3 years or on hand IT support, but when I do (this will be the 4th computer) I need to provide spare capacity and a bit of grunt to take up the slack.

    10,000 rpm seek times as you say suited to a heavier workload / server base.
    However, Revit continues to be more hungry every year since 4.5 when I started, and I am happy to have a bit of un-needed power in reserve for possible Vista business later or other developments hence the notion for a 10k SCSI.
    That said, I am going to take your advice because it does make good economic sense and I doubt I will be worried about the extra 50Mb/sec throughput for quite a while. Costs will come down and they might be more attractive in 1 yr to 18 mths.



    My recommendation would be to get two had drives in a RAID 1 (mirror) setup. Create a ~40GB partition for Windows and apps, and the rest as a partition for data. Buy two external backup hard drives and rotate them out on a weekly basis.

    I'm a bit lazy on the rotation policy (IT people shrug). I will opt for the easiest least risky procedure probably. I have started to read the .txt file posted on AUGI by you ? (from memory) on RAID configurations, however, I noticed that Win2K Pro /SP4 sometimes urges me to give it more swap file memory / it wants more physical space. I thought it appropriate to configure (Win XP Pro) in the new machine so that the swap file was bigger and somewhere else other than the C: partition as well as having data on another drive.
    If either drive fell over I'd lose one but not both until activating the external backup system.

    You are suggesting doing basically a similar thing but the swap file would then stay with the C: partition..? is it not so good to have a dedicated space for the swap file ?


    I can’t comment on which FX1500 card to get, maybe someone else here can. But is there any reason you feel you need an FX1500 instead of an FX5xx or an ATI V3xxx?


    Yup OK you and Wes. I have asked for costs on ATI Fire GL 7100 and 7200 cards. I am dead set on providing healthy capacity for this because Revit has overtaken 2 video cards and really should be 4 in the time I have been running it. This experience tells me to punt for a higher spec and much bigger card to avoid the rubbish times (in the future) I have to currently put up with for even simple stuff. I am going for the 256 Mb card minimum.

    Last one is the power supply.
    I am going to bow to collective wisdom and downgrade to about 400w but take the wholesaler advice on board also.
    Thanks a lot for your comments all.
    regards
    trombe

  8. #88
    Revit Arch. Wishlist Mgr. Wes Macaulay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Again -- don't bother with the V7100 -- even the V5100 is a waste of money with Revit, and there are few AEC apps that can make use of that horsepower in a video card. (Inventor might, but SketchUp, VIZ, AutoCAD and Revit won't.)

    You can save several hundred dollars by spec'ing the V3100, or if you want dual DVI, try the V3300 or V3400.

    Cheers

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Quote Originally Posted by trombe
    Hi irusun and Wes,

    thanks guys, awesome help...
    First, I'm glad we could be of some help.

    It seems like you've developed some ideas about how you like to approach the computer equipment stuff, so I want to emphasize that what I've suggested are only that, suggestions based on my own experience. So you need to do what you think will work for you. A bigger picture kind of thing you might want to think about is that in my experience, it makes a lot more sense to buy a $2,000 computer every two to three years than it does to buy a $4,000 computer every four to six years.

    Regarding the hard drives, SCSI likely won't be getting cheaper because it's server class hardware and a niche market. Sometime down the road, some form of SATA will likely replace it altogether. Those throughputs you see (300MB/sec, etc.) are completely theoretical... they are not achieved in the real world. If you're approaching even half that on burst read speeds, that's pretty amazing, and actual sustained transfer rates of 75MB/sec are really good.

    Regarding the RAID, I only suggested that because it doesn't sound like you have a server, and I know what a drag it is for a hard drive to suddenly die. Even if you have backups, you can still lose a day of work, and it can easily take a couple of days to get a new hard drive and reinstall everything. The RAID 1 will protect against that - if one drive dies, you'll be able to keep working until you get a replacement drive.

    For absolute best performance, the swap should be on a separate drive, probably on it's own controller - but I'd never recommend that from a value standpoint. A compromise is to put it on it's own partition. I don't bother with either because the real world value is outweighed by the increased complexity in my experience. The rule of thumb for swap used to be 2x the RAM, e.g. 4GB of RAM, 8GB of swap. So I think you have a point there - either give it it's own partition, or increase that 40GB I suggested to 50GB.

    Again, my original suggestions were based on getting the system costs down so that replacing the computer every 2-3 years is feasible. If that's not your strategy, then maybe some of my suggestions aren't as appropriate.

    Good luck!

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Recommended desktops for Revit

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Macaulay
    To test OpenGL: in Revit go to Settings > Options > Graphics and enable OpenGL. In a plan view zoom slowly in and out using your mousewheel (or hold Ctrl and your middle mouse button down and move the mouse up and down) and see if any lines disappear in the view. If they do, you have a problem. Test 3D views with shadows on and off (with OpenGL on and off) to see the difference.
    Now when you say 'disappear' you mean objects or lines that go away while you're moving in and out, or zooming in and out... correct? So lines that disappear while everything is moving.... ??

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