The BIG BIM picture

[bferrer]

Currently I am in the research phase of moving our company in the world of Building Information Modeling. Our firm is on the cutting edge of design for science and technology facilities. To our credit we have designed some of largest research facilities in the world. Our firm is a multidisciplinary organization with Architecture, Laboratory Planning, Structural, Mechanical, Plumbing, Electrical, Site Planning, Facility Planning, and Interiors under one umbrella. We have been working in 2D AutoCad since release 10 but now that the technology has evolved it is time for us to incorporate the latest technologies into our workflow. Our firm, like most AE firms, has decided that BIM is our future. The question is what technologies(software) will improve how we deliver projects.
As I continue to research and understand the world of BIM I continue to keep the following points in mind when choosing any technology. My questions for the Zoogdesign community are at the end of the list.

1. Past, Present, and Future. Because we cannot just drop the current 2D process and switch all future projects to the 3D BIM process, what current software will help us transition by supporting our old projects, our current projects and our future projects?

2. Interoperability. What software will support the 3D interoperability between all the above disciplines? The software needs to support the old way of 2D xrefs, but it must now support 3D interoperability(Industry Foundation Classes).

3. 2D Drawing Coordination. How does the software interface with multiple users and with users who are using different software? Our firm, our contractor, our clients, and consultants require several different drawing formats from AutoCad 14, 2000, 2002, Microstation, PDF, DWF, Tif, Jpeg, etc. Will the software support all these formats?

4. Design flexibility. How customizable can the building be? I have yet to see any of our facilities contain just run-of-the-mill building designs. Our designers aim for something new every time on all aspects of the facility design, from overall building shapes to very fine details. We cannot rely on the software’s libraries; instead can the libraries be customized to fit our every need.

5. Building Size and Complexity. Can the software handle the complexity and size of our buildings? For us, it not just size that is a factor it’s also the complexity of all that goes into a science and research facility. How does the software handle these things?

6. Scheduling and Cost Estimating. If you are familiar with BIM, you understand the BID process is getting pulled closer and closer to the early part of the Construction Document phase and even into Design Documentation. Does the software support the ability to view or export out a broad range of building data for early bidding and cost estimating?

7. Error checking. Does the software support a “building spell check?” Can we perform coordination checks between disciplines and consultants on major aspects of the facility?

8. Code Checking. In Asia there are a few governments that are working on programs that code checks your BIM model. When USA code officials adopt this methodology will the software be ready to support it?

9. Analysis Reports. Will the software support the future of Wind or Energy analysis on a facility?

10. Construction. Does the software fit the BIM process beyond the design phase? Can contractors use the software or the BIM model to do 4D construction?

11. As Built BIM Model. How will the software encourage the creation of an As Built BIM Model for the owner?

12. Facility Management. Can the software support facility management? Does the software help the owner to better understand the facility and how to manage every complex part of it?

13. Building Lifecycle. Because our facilities are design to evolve with the changes of science and technology, can the BIM model be reopened in five or more years to support major changes to the facility such as renovations and additions?


If you have managed to read through that entire list then I ask you to comment on how Revit fits into any one of the above points. I am not asking and I know that Revit cannot do all these things. I am also not look for one single application that can. What I am looking for is software that supports the BIG BIM picture. If the software cannot fulfill one of the above points then what can the software do to support it. For example, if Revit cannot do 4D Construction for a contractor then how will Revit help to get the information to the contractor so that he can do a 4D model in his own software?

I am posting this message on Graphisoft’s ArchiCad forum and eventually Bentley’s. Because I have had a chance to pilot Revit in the design phase and seen a demo of ArchiCad, and soon Bentley; I will also reply to this thread on how I think these applications are fulfilling the above points. Also feel free to add any points that I might have missed.

Thank you in advance,

Ben Ferrer
bferrer@cuh2a.com

[bferrer]

This is the link to the same thread on the Graphisoft website for ArchiCad users:

http://www.graphisoft.com/community/...348d86323#9710

[hand471037]

Just a few things:

1. Since you are on AutoCAD right now, and are going to want to use all that legacy data (even if it's just cutting & pasting details), Revit Series might be a very good way for you to go. This is the package of AutoCAD and Revit together. You get both, in thier latest forms, so that you can have a gradual migration to BIM rather than having to jump into it completely, a process that would be made very easy due to how flawlessly the two talk to each other. Jumping to a totally different platform, like ArchiCAD or TriForma, would be a viable option, however you would have to make a more sudden, bigger, and probably more expesive jump to a system that isn't going to talk to your legacy data as efficently and (in the opinion of many here) would be much more complex and harder to leverage the power of a BIM system.

2. While Revit doesn't support IFC, and that sucks, keep in mind that no one really fully supports IFC properly; the marketing may say that they do, but other than some of the cost estimating software out there most are on different standards and have problems. IFC, while a great idea, is still kinda a pipe dream currently and doesn't seem to be gaining any steam. Do some real research and ask some hard questions about it prior to making it an requirement for your BIM system.

3. Reivt supports all these formats, including Microstation, and allows for you to 'x-ref' other's 2D info into your Revit projects. Some of the Leasing and Facilities management datamodels I made in Revit are nothing more than 2D DWG's linked into a Revit model with the varous suites and areas defined over the top of them- so we didn't waste any time re-doing old work, but now have an easly edited intelligent building model for Leasing management...

4. This issue of Design flexibility is the ONE thing that I have to say drew me to Revit. You're right that to leverage any BIM system you're going to have to spend time setting up the intelligent content to behave & look the way you need it to. When BIM systems first came out (Triforma & ADT) I took a heavy look at them, and decided that unless you were doing very 'cookie-cutter' work that the time you would spend in project set-up and content creation would eat up any efficenys gained by using a BIM system. But then when Revit came out, and I saw how easy and fast it was to create custom job-specific content, I was sold. WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO QUICKLY GENERATE CUSTOM CONTENT, NO BIM SYSTEM WILL BE EFFICENT. Sorry for the all caps, but this is something that I feel a lot of people don't see as being as important as it is. I mean, ArchiCAD, while a great software, requires you to use a propitary programing language (or a add-on that costs extra) to make custom content via GDI. The manual for GDI is the size of a telephone book; and I have a hard time imagining more than one or two 'CAD Manager' types able to get thier heads around making new content. With Revit, you're 'power users' will be able to make content, vastly simplfing your IT & managment overhead and speeding up jobs (for everyone will be able to work on the project). If a large part of your time will be making custom content for your jobs, then why not use a software that makes that job the most easy and efficent?

5. This is something that you'll have to see for yourself. Don't beleve the hype as it were, eather way. Get a demo project from each vendor, and run each one on your existing systems. Don't take anyone's word about this!

6. This is one area where Revit can be very robust. Revit already has a limited cost-esitamting ability built-in, and with the ability to effortlessly take the whole building model and export it to a database file (again, without an add-on) and the ability to effortlessly generate any schedule and export that to Excel allows for a *ton* of bid and price calculation options available. Since Revit is running on a Relational database, data management is one area where the product really shines.

7. Not at this time in the way you are thinking. You can do some level of problem checking, but no 'code check' or interfearance testing. But I hear rumor that the next AutoDesk building systems will be Revit-based, and as such, will be able to do *exactly* what you're after.

8. I don't know. But with AutoDesk's resources and customer base (a lot of which is in Asia) I can't imagine that if this becomes a requirement that Revit wouldn't be changed to work with whatever format they require.

9. Not at this time. It's possible by using Schedules and the database export to do some of this right now. I've heard rumors that AutoDesk is already working on adding such links into Revit, but don't know for certain. However it would seem to me to be a rather trivial thing, consitering that the database and the information is already within Revit...

10. This is a big yes. There are several large design/build and construction firms using Revit for this exact task, and not even using it for design, 3D, or drawing production at all! Revit excels at being a project and information management tool, better than any other BIM system I've worked with. Dealing with lots of complex info of varous types, and making that info easy to access and manipulate is one of Revit's strongest suits. In phasing, construction, this really comes to the surface and works extremely well. Several other 'BIM' systems (like ADT) don't even have any kind of phasing built in!

11. Don't know. However, I know of two Real Estate brokers here in San Francisco that are using Revit right now for leasing management. You can bet they would love to work with Architects using Revit, for then they would get usable models at the end of a TI or project that they could use...

12. Heck yea. This is what we primarly used Revit for where I used to work. E-mail me and I can send you some examples and speifics.

13. I've been working with Revit for three years now, and have *never* had a problem updating a building model. There are others here on this site who have been working with project since way before that, without issue.

Hope this helps!

[beegee]

Re Item 9.

Will the software support the future of Wind or Energy analysis on a facility?

You may find this Topic interesting.

If you referring to structural analysis as well, there are things happening on that front also. If you contact nicolas.mangon@autodesk.com , you may be able to get more information.

[cphubb]

bferrer,

You sound like your are very CAD and computer literate so I will assume that you are somewhat familier with databases.

As a follow up to Jeffery's reply, some of the items you mentioned that Revit cannot do yet can easily be accomplished using the database output from Revit. We have begun to use the database for Energy Calcs and are working on a shear-gravity load program which will be Access/Excel based with SQL as the primary data storage center. We would also like to in the future develop a code review application based on the same data, but won't until our state fully adopts IBC or whatever they decide to get. The great thing about this is that you can customize any application to read the data you want in the way you want. You will not be dependant on programmers in another state/country who may not be familier with your particular requirements.

I have worked with external data applications with Autocad for almost 10 years and thought I had it all worked out. But out of the box Revit has more database power than any of the Autocad applications I have put together. I feel a little cheated.

The only drawback to the Revit data system is it relies on ODBC which requres setting up of DSN's all over your system if you have many projects, but in the grand scheme it is a small administrative task for one person. We have a shared directory where we place them and everyone can open the DSN for our SQL database.

In conclusion there are very few items on your list that cannot be accomplished now using the Revit data model and I hear through the pipline that many of the items are comming soon to a workstation near you.

[Scott D Davis]

9. Analysis Reports. Will the software support the future of Wind or Energy analysis on a facility?

From the new 6.1 release help files:

Energy Analysis

You can export a Revit model to a gbXML file to perform energy analysis or load analysis using products, such as Green Building Studio by GeoPraxis and Trane Trace 700. There is a complete tutorial available on exporting to gbxml available on http://revit.autodesk.com/documents.asp. The tutorial is available in PDF format.