See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Electronic Seals on Drawings

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    2006-01
    Posts
    2
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Electronic Seals on Drawings

    "The Ohio Board of Examiners of Architects and the Ohio Board of Landscape Architect Examiners have revised the Seal rules for architects and landscape architects. Electronic seals and signatures are now permitted... Electronic seals and signatures must adhere to certain requirements: they must be unique to, and under the sole control of the person using it; they must be capable of verification and linked to a document in such a manner that the digital seal or signature is invalidated if any data on the document is altered. In addition, the document shall be available in a view only format if the document is to be electronically transmitted." This was taken from Article 1 Seal Rules Revised and was quoted in AIA Cincinnati.

    My question is: Does anyone know how this can be done in such a way that nothing can be edited without the seal being invalidated? I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

  2. #2
    BIM/VDC Management Brian Myers's Avatar
    Join Date
    2003-02
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    1,815
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    Good question!

    Well, and this is just my take, technically you can't transfer the files as an electronic copy unless it's in a "view only" state. To me that could indicate a PDF or DWF... but also might indicate the Construction Documents being burned to CD. In that fashion the drawings could be moved, printed, even revised, but it would be illegal to modify the drawing files on the CD on which the original seal was "burned" into the drawing. Any changes would legally require you to remove the seal.... to further "protect" your CD you could have a text file placed on it indicating the last revision dates and sizes of each of the CAD files and if these file dates/sizes were different then you would know something was wrong.

    Just my thoughts, not sure if they would hold up in an Ohio court!
    Last edited by Brian Myers; 2006-01-11 at 07:02 PM.
    Brian Myers
    Jacobs: VDC Design Office Lead (BIM Leadership)
    Visit my LinkedIn Profile for more information.

  3. #3
    All AUGI, all the time archjake's Avatar
    Join Date
    2003-07
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    531
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    I don't think that a PDF would work. Anyone could open the document in Photoshop, or other graphics program and make a modification and then save the new PDF.

    What does it mean that it needs to be linked to a document? Does this mean there will be a 3rd party where digital documents with seals / signatures can be verified? Interesting.
    Jake Boen, Architect
    www.InPlaceArchitecture.com
    www.BIMproductivity.com
    Tucson, Arizona

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    2006-01
    Posts
    2
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    That was the impression that I got (a third party). If you got to your start menu, programs, autodesk, there is an option to attach digital signatures and you pay a fee of something like $10 a year. It slightly changes the icon if the file is electronically signed and if any modifications are made (byte count, revision date, etc.) the electronic signature is revoked. I don't think that is what we need though. The seal is the most important thing and that would not be revoked as a result of having a digital signature. I'm going to call AIA and see what they have in mind and will let you know what I find out.

  5. #5
    Mod / Salary / SM Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    2001-12
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    5,302
    Login to Give a bone
    1

    Question Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuawulf
    That was the impression that I got (a third party). If you got to your start menu, programs, autodesk, there is an option to attach digital signatures and you pay a fee of something like $10 a year. It slightly changes the icon if the file is electronically signed and if any modifications are made (byte count, revision date, etc.) the electronic signature is revoked. I don't think that is what we need though. The seal is the most important thing and that would not be revoked as a result of having a digital signature. I'm going to call AIA and see what they have in mind and will let you know what I find out.
    what about if you affix the seal as a raster image, then when you send it out, you don't send that with it, so it obviously won't show up?
    Melanie Stone
    @MistresDorkness

    ARCHIBUS, FMS/FMInteract and AutoCAD Expert (I use Revit and Tririga, too)
    Technical Editor
    not all those who wander are lost

  6. #6
    Super Moderator blads's Avatar
    Join Date
    2015-10
    Location
    out cycling somewhere... I wish...
    Posts
    2,284
    Login to Give a bone
    1

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    A PDF document can be electronically signed. If edited in any way, the electronic "sign" usually then displays a "question mark" over the validity of the document rather than the usual "green tick". This can be done in Acrobat v7 Professional. This method is accepted in legal circles in parts of Australia.

    I don't know if something along these lines can be done in DWF?
    Cheers @blads
    Mac Geek | Building Design Suite 2020 | Semi-Retired Building Designer / CAD-BIM Trainer | Autodesk Certified Professional

  7. #7
    I could stop if I wanted to Hammer.John.J's Avatar
    Join Date
    2015-09
    Location
    Springfield, MA
    Posts
    487
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    no it can't because dwf is a hack of pdf.

    you can sign and password protect pdf files. infact you can make it impossible to even open the file if you wanted to bad enough.

    here's the trick as i see it, making the seal an "image" is an issue because it is easily hacked. making it part of the cad drawing and therefore linework embedded or "printed" in the pdf makes hacking it much more difficult because you can't just extract the image from the pdf.

    I strongly suggest researching password protection/verification/digitial signature/ with PDF.

    dwf......... PUKE.....blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    (if you hack the pdf with photoshop... if you can open it... the signature is gone) password protected pdfs are tough. and programs like acroplot pro and blue beam are excellent tools for making cad files into super high quality password protectable pdfs)
    Thank you kindly
    Lead Landscape Architect & CAD Manager
    R14 - C3D 2014
    http://www.youtube.com/user/butzers03xtreme I drive a Silverado, its loud and I like it

  8. #8
    The Silent Type Mike.Perry's Avatar
    Join Date
    2000-11
    Posts
    13,654
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    Quote Originally Posted by johnh.101098
    no it can't because dwf is a hack of pdf.
    Hi

    Can I please ask where I can find such information ( read about this "hack of PDF" )...

    You ( and others ) may find some of the following information interesting...

    The advantages of sharing DWF files instead of native AutoCAD drawings

    Latest DWF Frequently Asked Questions "FAQ"

    DWF Security

    Have a good one, Mike

  9. #9
    Super Moderator blads's Avatar
    Join Date
    2015-10
    Location
    out cycling somewhere... I wish...
    Posts
    2,284
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Perry
    Hi


    DWF Security

    Have a good one, Mike
    Good article on DWF security...

    thanks Mike
    Cheers @blads
    Mac Geek | Building Design Suite 2020 | Semi-Retired Building Designer / CAD-BIM Trainer | Autodesk Certified Professional

  10. #10
    I could stop if I wanted to Hammer.John.J's Avatar
    Join Date
    2015-09
    Location
    Springfield, MA
    Posts
    487
    Login to Give a bone
    0

    Default Re: Electronic Seals on Drawings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Perry
    Hi

    Can I please ask where I can find such information ( read about this "hack of PDF" )...

    You ( and others ) may find some of the following information interesting...

    The advantages of sharing DWF files instead of native AutoCAD drawings

    Latest DWF Frequently Asked Questions "FAQ"

    DWF Security

    Have a good one, Mike
    there are plenty of articles about dwf vs pdf but one thing is certainly clear, just like Bill Gates perpetuated and more or less stole Apple's technology.... Autodesk IN MY OPINION has done the same with dwf to Adobe.

    further more, there is no dispute that OUTSIDE of the AEC and other industries familiarity between the 2 programs is obviously severly weighted towards pdf. Take a poll and see how many people outside of our industry have heard of dwf and how many have heard of pdf and then ask how many people could open a dwf on their machine.

    why does that matter? It's hard enough to get a client to figure out pdf, let alone dwf.

    i called dwf a hack because they hacked it from Adobe from my point of view.
    Thank you kindly
    Lead Landscape Architect & CAD Manager
    R14 - C3D 2014
    http://www.youtube.com/user/butzers03xtreme I drive a Silverado, its loud and I like it

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Managing seals
    By AaronC in forum Revit MEP - General
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 2012-07-19, 02:46 PM
  2. Electronic / Digital Shop Drawings
    By Chris.Partin in forum CAD Management - General
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 2010-06-16, 04:10 PM
  3. Title Blocks and Electronic Seals
    By Calvn_Swing in forum Revit - Plotting/Printing/Exporting
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2006-11-07, 05:39 PM
  4. Visibility of seals
    By bskripac in forum Revit Architecture - General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2005-12-22, 06:45 PM
  5. electronic markup of drawings
    By IanR in forum AutoCAD General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2004-10-28, 04:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •