AutoCAD Interviews, conducting a CAD test

[scott.wilcox]

Over on the autodesk forums, this (the topic of new hire testing) comes up as often as it does here... I recently read a statement from a guy that said if he was asked to take a test during an interview, he would find that offensive and walk out? What does anyone else think about that?

Anyone who walks out of an interview after being asked to take a test can feel free to do so, but I would never consider them for a position. While the interviewee thinks they are too good to be tested, or insulted by the suggestion, what evidence does the interviewer have to measure the competence level of the interviewee? Sounds like this person is not welcome to scrutiny.

I have been testing for nearly a decade, and have been using the same test for all. It is a relatively simple drawing, with questions afterward, that require the ability to draw accurately so the correct answers are found. In giving this test about 30 times, I've had people who aced it in 15 minutes, and users who took 40 minutes to draw a few lines and nothing more. I'm sure you can guess which of these were hired, and which were not.

What if the test were not a CAD test, but a drug test, would everyone still be willing to participate?

[Wanderer]

I think that a person who decides to be offended will be offended.
For whatever reason, they choose to take the testing/questioning/judging as a personal insult.

I took both a cad test and a drug test at my current employer. I found neither offensive.
I mean, really, they're making an investment with me, I certainly wouldn't expect the manager or hr person or supervisor to purchase a car without first test-driving it.

Pesonally, I would never hire a person who refused to be tested.

Anyone who walks out of an interview after being asked to take a test can feel free to do so, but I would never consider them for a position. While the interviewee thinks they are too good to be tested, or insulted by the suggestion, what evidence does the interviewer have to measure the competence level of the interviewee? Sounds like this person is not welcome to scrutiny.

I have been testing for nearly a decade, and have been using the same test for all. It is a relatively simple drawing, with questions afterward, that require the ability to draw accurately so the correct answers are found. In giving this test about 30 times, I've had people who aced it in 15 minutes, and users who took 40 minutes to draw a few lines and nothing more. I'm sure you can guess which of these were hired, and which were not.

What if the test were not a CAD test, but a drug test, would everyone still be willing to participate?

[CADKitty]

Over on the autodesk forums, this (the topic of new hire testing) comes up as often as it does here... I recently read a statement from a guy that said if he was asked to take a test during an interview, he would find that offensive and walk out? What does anyone else think about that?

I think if that I would interpret that as meaning "why don't you believe I'm a fabulous drafter? If you want me so badly, you'll acknowldege how wonderful I am!" and be glad he left.
I think any of us who've been in the industry for a while would be slightly offended at first, but come to realize that it's not like we're being singled out. Everyone who walks through that door is asked to take a CAD test - I can live with that. As others have said, the company needs to protect itself and weed out those who don't know what they're doing as quickly as possible. On one job interview I went on I was actually asked to take a written test first, then come back later if they were still interested in me and take a CAD test. Well, I wasn't that interested in the job as it turned out and when they called back I'd already signed on with another firm. I'm still curious, though, as to what the test would have entailed.

[Hammer.John.J]

we don't "test" we have conversation. There are certain questions you can ask that eliminate the need to test. However you can't tell speed by conversation.... i've tried that just can't do it. I always ask them to do some offsetting, draw a few stupid things use a couple commands so i can figure out how quick they are. All i need to do is see how they use the interface what type in commands they use and what they are familiar with.

If somebody is knowledgeable enough to say hey you know to be efficient, i really need to bring in my own cui file or setup my own here real quick, then you know they have some experience and preferences at least.

Anyways, being "tested" and "taking a quote endquote test" is rediculous in my opinion. People need a few weeks to get in rythem etc., you should be able to figure out enough from conversation and a few quick demonstrations to determine if they are what you want. We put everybody on a probation period, and if doesn't pan out well.... so be it, but at least they had a fair chance.

a few critical questions:
Do you work vanillia straight up autocad or do you work with Land Desktop/Civil 3D/etc?
What was the first version of cad you did production work with?
Do you use Layermanager with express tools or with the layer dialogue box?
What methods do you usually use to get hand drafted sketches plans into Cad?
Can you give me an example of why you would attach an external reference instead of overlaying it?
Do you have experience with plot styles or with color by layer and CTB files?
In the past how have you saved your plots/prints and how do you usually print from cad?

it's far less stressful to have conversation versus doing "x y and z" if they b.s. you, you'll know real fast.

[Comach]

Does anyone actually test for drafting skills?

Using the cad software, drawing a few lines and understanding xrefs is one thing, but if the candidate does not have much of a clue about engineering drafting or know how to present the design intent correctly then just how good are they????

I believe I have mentioned this before, but skilled drafting personnel who really know how to draw are few and far between and I have not read many posts that actually asses this skill.

Cad is destroying drafting - I see so much rubbish being produced by so called "cad draftspersons" that it gives me real cause for concern. Remember the end product is still a paper drawing and the rules for presenting this drawing have not changed.

[Brian Myers]

Cad is destroying drafting - I see so much rubbish being produced by so called "cad draftspersons" that it gives me real cause for concern. Remember the end product is still a paper drawing and the rules for presenting this drawing have not changed.

True, but the real end product... is the end product (the built entity). If you are smart enough to create this without making an error then you should be smart enough to take instruction on how to keep a drawing clean, looking good, and within a certain level of standards. In a choice between a "neat" drafter and an "accurate" drafter I'll take an accurate one every time.

That being said, in time "standards" will be more and more enforced by the design software, it will be the creative individuals and those that blend well with the personalities of your firm that will ultimately pay the biggest long term dividends.

[Hammer.John.J]

...it will be the creative individuals and those that blend well with the personalities of your firm that will ultimately pay the biggest long term dividends.

pretty much somes it up. you could be the best drafter/architect/designer/ etc. in the world, but if you don't fit in with the company personality, priorities, etc.... it's just not going to work out.

you either know how to draft or you don't. Cad isn't like story telling, you can't pretend if you know it or not, no matter how much reading you do.

if the first week you are at your job, and you talk the talk but can't draft a circle or do offsets layer managers etc... it's pretty clear you would've lied through your teeth to get the job and your fired, it's that simple.

the hard part is matching personalities like dilbert said.

layer management is the most time consuming part of drafting, setting colors and freezing/thawing, on/off takes more time than it does to draft in my opinion.

and if you think that cad is ruining drafting than go set up a sweet stack of mylars on top of each other with that old pin setup and deal with lithographers and blue print machines.

You can do more in cad in an hour than hand drafters could've done at the same quality in a day maybe 2 days.

[sschwartz85916]

Amen

I worked for an engineering firm where the CAD standards were so restrictive that no one (with the exception of the CAD manager who set up the standards) could draft productively. This same company had a written test for employment that was geared toward typing drafting. I'm a clicking drafter and had to dig way back to my past knowledge to remember some of the typed commands.

As for testing. I use a simple drawing along with written directions to test potential candidates. This test is more designed to see how well the candidate follow directions than to test their drafting skills.

Did they create the dimension style correctly?
Did they create the text style correctly?
Did they put all entities on the correct layers or did they just change the entity color to look like it's on the correct layer? (A pet peeve of mine)

This is an entry level drafter test only. I think if your hiring a skilled designer an interview to assess knowledge is all that is needed)

DID THEY USE OSNAPS??

[charlie.bauer341340]

I take a simple detail drawing, give the candidate a list of layers (with names like concrete, Rebar, hatch, text) and ask them to draw the detail on the proper layer. If someone understands the logic of proper layering they can learn the rest of the technical stuff, but if they don't it seems they do not have the mind set to work in the environment around here.

[CGM]

... it's pretty clear you would've lied through your teeth to get the job and your fired, it's that simple.

Hello all,
Here in France it isn't all that simple to give people the sack, and worst still it is very expensive to do so. For that reason the CAD test is an important part of the interview process. (Yipe, here too people are prepared to lie at the job interview. ) The first time I was asked to do a test I was a bit put out, but hey I wanted the job so I took the test.
The last round of interviews it was my turn to set the test. I opted for an A3 format hand written/dimensioned survey notes to be converted into a finished drawing. I agree with Scott Wilcox that 20 to 40 minutes is reasonable, any longer is not fair on canditates. I also liked the suggestion that current staff also take the test, not so much as a benchmarking exercise but with a view to streamlining the actual test for future candidates.
~my two cents, (of a euro € )~