Doors - Head Height incorrect?

[dbaldacchino]

I just noticed this so I'm not sure if it's a new RB9 thing or not....

When selecting a door and going to it's properties, there is a "Head Height" under "Other". The weird thing is that this parameter doesn't show up when you go to edit the family or start a door from scratch fom the template. But the worst part is that it really doesn't report Head Height, but Door Height. Is this some bug or am I missing something? It's really misleading. Thanks!

[aaronrumple]

I just noticed this so I'm not sure if it's a new RB9 thing or not....

When selecting a door and going to it's properties, there is a "Head Height" under "Other". The weird thing is that this parameter doesn't show up when you go to edit the family or start a door from scratch fom the template. But the worst part is that it really doesn't report Head Height, but Door Height. Is this some bug or am I missing something? It's really misleading. Thanks!

There are some parameters that Revit will automatically construct as families are loaded. Sill height and head height are two of these and will be created automatically for both doors and windows. In the case of the door, it will take the parameter "Height" and use that + the sill height for constructing the head height. Height is also a parameter built into the door family. If you don't use Height but make up your own parameter and leave Height set to 0 or some arbitrary value - Head Height will be screwed up. Sill height always uses the bottom factory provide ref. plane. Adding your own ref. plane in below that will not affect the sill height.

All of this could be made a lot clearer to the end user.

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks a lot Aaron.

Here's the deal....and I'm not sure if this is just our convention or whether it applies only to commercial etc. By "Head Height" we typically are interested in the top of the frame elevation. So if I have a 4" head width and my door is 7'-0", then my Head Height is 7'-4". This way we can check masonry coursing easily. In the default Door family template, Height refers to the door height. It seems that Head Height reports the Height of the door and ignores the thickness of the frame. Shouldn't head height be Height of Door + Sill Height + Frame Thickness at Head?

The template should at least let the user define what Head Height is, as perhaps this might differ. I might have to re-adjust all my families to make this work. What confuses me is that I thought under 8.1 I was getting the right Head Height and this occurred to me as a complete surprise. I could have just overlooked it though too!

[aaronrumple]

Thanks a lot Aaron.

Here's the deal....and I'm not sure if this is just our convention or whether it applies only to commercial etc. By "Head Height" we typically are interested in the top of the frame elevation. So if I have a 4" head width and my door is 7'-0", then my Head Height is 7'-4". This way we can check masonry coursing easily. In the default Door family template, Height refers to the door height. It seems that Head Height reports the Height of the door and ignores the thickness of the frame. Shouldn't head height be Height of Door + Sill Height + Frame Thickness at Head?

The template should at least let the user define what Head Height is, as perhaps this might differ. I might have to re-adjust all my families to make this work. What confuses me is that I thought under 8.1 I was getting the right Head Height and this occurred to me as a complete surprise. I could have just overlooked it though too!

Ideally what would happen is that the factory would get all the industry standard parameters in the family. I agree, head height is top of frame - not top of panel. As such I use panel height for the door and then height to define top of frame. It all gets down to the basic object model of BIM. We really should all be using the same terms and setup if we're to trust BIM. the factory needs to take the lead on this.

[dbaldacchino]

Agreed. I'm gonna have to modify my door families for now to reflect this but I'll file an SR as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for your input

[ejburrell67787]

We schedule Structural Opening sizes which avoids the issue of leaf (panel) sizes and cill / frame thicknesses etc. and also gives us the correct coursing levels for the openings. We do schedule component sizes (ie door set) and leaf sizes (panel) but they are easy to check against the SO size and see when they don't add up. (which a contractor kindly picked up for me on some of my schedules )

[dbaldacchino]

We schedule door panel sizes and then we show frames in elevation and assign a frame type to the door panel in the schedule.

I can make this work by making my width and height become the rough width and rough height. I created door width and door height parameters and made them my old width and height. Now the head height is reporting the right number. The drawback is the fact that Rough Height and Rough Width becomes redundant and not used. And now I have to correct my door schedules to pick up the new parameters.

[BWG]

Wouldn't head height from top of frame be incorrect for doors in walls that are not masonry?

[dbaldacchino]

Well, for commercial construction I guess the answer is no. We do mostly hollow metal frames and the head height would actually be to the very top...then it's clipped and grouted, even in a gyp wall. I'm not sure if the same applies to residential....there might be geographical differences too. That's why I think the template should somehow accomodate these differences. The current doors template assumes that the Head Height is the Height parameter + Sill Height, which is a problem for us. As I said, there is a solution but you end up with extra parameters....in my case the Rought Height and Rough width aren't being used as the Width and Height are now taking their place to make it work.

[ejburrell67787]

Wouldn't head height from top of frame be incorrect for doors in walls that are not masonry?

We set out door Structural Opening sizes to brick coursing in any case as this suits standard UK door set sizes. If the door is in timber or steel frame, the door frame still gets packed out and benefits from the tolerance of the SO size.