Lineweights STB vs CTB

[jrebennack]

Well... I think STB's where one of those moments where Autodesk had a great idea by didn't follow through. They were introduced in ACAD2000.

I think the idea of thousands, if not millions, of non-BYLAYER draftsman weeping in the fetal position under there desks scared them. To me, that means one is doing the right thing.

Trust me, once you go STB you don't go back!

[ekubaskie]

There is a problem with leaving the layer set up as "Normal" however. That problem is called color printers. Unless you set every layer as color White, the "Normal" plot style will default to whatever the plotter prints. Even if the printer is set for black & white, it will still plot grayscales, which is what colors like green and yellow and others will be.

Why is it a problem? I *always* print to a color printer. I'm OK with making all the layers in a drawing white/black, though I'll usually use some of the grays. After all, that's the color I want it to be, right? I also do a lot of presentation and report-figure work where I USE color.

I draw WYSIWYG - if a line is red in my drawing, that's because it is meant to be printed red on paper. The person looking over my shoulder sees what the drawing will look like, whether he's the engineer or the janitor.

Michael: there's an interesting point in your post. You said it made no sense "to 'liberate' line weights from colors, and thereby lose the ability to visualize what a drawing will look like when plotted by seeing it on the screen." Your color table is not the same as others'. They will look at your drawing and see something completely different than what you do - and the same applies if you look at their files.

Why is that?

A few months after making the switch from color-table to WYSIWYG drawings I looked at one of my old ones and it looked all wrong. All the lines were the same weight, just different colors! My theory is that you don't consciously "visualize" anything - after months or years of working with a given color table, your brain actually sees certain colors as thicker. A few months of a different CTB or WYSIWYG retrains your brain and the old way looks wrong.

[ekubaskie]

Well... I think STB's where one of those moments where Autodesk had a great idea by didn't follow through. They were introduced in ACAD2000.

I think the idea of thousands, if not millions, of non-BYLAYER draftsman weeping in the fetal position under there desks scared them. To me, that means one is doing the right thing.

Trust me, once you go STB you don't go back!

Truth.

I worry more about becoming one of millions of drafters on the unemployment line - and my strategy to stay OUT of their numbers is to constantly strive to stay on top of new developments, and to adapt when I see a better way.

Melanie! You asked the other day whether you should learn the verticals and design concepts. This should tell you how I feel about that: I'm not going to be the guy replaced by Civil 3D, I'm going to be the guy that does Civil 3D so well, and in ways even AutoDesk never thought of, that I never have to utter the words "Want fries with that?" or "Welcome to Wal-mart!"

Congrats to you and Husband, BTW!

[Wanderer]

Truth.

I worry more about becoming one of millions of drafters on the unemployment line - and my strategy to stay OUT of their numbers is to constantly strive to stay on top of new developments, and to adapt when I see a better way.

Melanie! You asked the other day whether you should learn the verticals and design concepts. This should tell you how I feel about that: I'm not going to be the guy replaced by Civil 3D, I'm going to be the guy that does Civil 3D so well, and in ways even AutoDesk never thought of, that I never have to utter the words "Want fries with that?" or "Welcome to Wal-mart!"

Congrats to you and Husband, BTW!

You're right, I'm sure. Meh, if I ever went back to fast food, I'd work the grill... 'hey, did that bozo say they wanted fries with that?'
Now just to find the time and $ to get some deeper education in those areas.

Thanks, much appreciated.

[jrebennack]

ekabaskie: For most of the companies, they do there drawings in black & white. Its easier to run mass printings with black & white than color. So if your setup with "Normal" as your plot style it will come up in grayscales on a black & white printer. That was my point. Also in large companies, you often have multiple printers and plotters and "Normal" will have different plotting attributes based on printers. Maybe not a problem for you, but for someone else who gets your drawing, it could be a problem.

I think the point I've been trying make here is that STBs allow you to break the "color = linewidth" cycle and still give a user many of the options and the abilities that the lineweight or whatever would give you.

For us, since we use STBs color means nothing. Its a pretty color and nothing more. We can have things plot color and black & white in the same drawing without having to draw everything but the color items in white.

STBs have many advantages over CTBs or lineweight. It combines the advantages of the Lineweight and the advantages of CTBs. I suggest everyone do the research on and play with STBs and see what is available. I think you will be impressed.

I'm always willing to help anyone make the jump to STBs!

[ekubaskie]

B&W printers don't do grayscales that well, either - they come out much better on the color printer. I just draw black when I want black, and grays when I want grays, so "normal" does the job, and I never have to worry about sending the STB file along with the DWG.

I did have other styles early on. Before we could apply truecolor to objects and layers, I had a number of screened styles, and some truecolor pastels for theming maps. I also had one called "nocolor" that printed black no matter what the object color was. Nocolor was actually helpful in making the transition from CTBs - I could draw in the colors I had been using under CTBs and anything I had to paste into a color-based drawing worked fine. I also used it as a style for xref layers, xref-ing a color-based drawing from a style-based.

I do understand what you're saying; I broke the color=linewidth cycle about a week after I installed 2000. But if you are defining lineweight in your named style, you are still dependent on an external file to print your drawing. Lineweights should be defined by layer or object properties, just as color & linetype are, and this is particularly true if you need to transfer the linework to other graphics software.

[jrebennack]

I think we've gotten to the point where we live in two different worlds and our respective methodologies fit our worlds.

As I've said, I work at a Civil/Survey/Planning firm and hence, we worry far less about someone with Adobe Illustrator getting one of files or an architectural firm plotting our files than we do about making sure our drawings are reproducible (as copies) for our clients and that the drawing looks the same when it comes out of one of our 4 large format plotters in our 3 offices and that when I send it to a color tabloid printer it looks the same.

To be honest, I just don't get why sending a STB file in an attachment is big deal. What is real difference between attaching 2 files versus 1? Most company's or people also use XREFS or images and by itself means at least 2 files would have to be attached. If I'm super worried the person on the other end won't know what do with a STB file, why would I be sending them my DWG in the first place? Time for a PDF or DWF.

But, to others wanting to really think about the way to plot there drawings, especially if you've been using CTBs or lineweights, take a look at STBs. It lets you do things that neither CTBs or lineweights alone let you do.

[ekubaskie]

I don't get why sending along either CTB or STB file is such a big deal, either. You're absolutely right, it's a few mouse clicks, but all to often it doesn't happen. I wouldn't be rich if I had a buck for every time I had to call back when someone sent me a DWG but no CTB, but I'd have a great beer budget!

[jrebennack]

Actually a Young Double Chocolate Stout does sound good right about now...

[ekubaskie]

Actually a Young Double Chocolate Stout does sound good right about now...

Hijack time! I kinda like those, too, but today I picked up a Newcastle Nut Brown Ale on the way home.

I warned you guys I won't pass up a chance to talk beer! We are going to have to set up a slurp-fest at AU... (edit: Yeah, I know about the AUGI bust, but I mean exotics.)