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Thread: Toilets Part 2

  1. #1
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    Default Toilets Part 2

    Okay,
    I'm getting warmer.
    I've got the plan toilet family as well as the side view family loaded into the semi-final Plumbing Fixture wall based family file. See attached.
    Problem: the side view family toilet has Grab Bars (side and behind toilet) as well as a toilet paper holder.

    I thought I'd be clever and create some sub categories in the Detail family Side view file to put the toilet paper holder and grab bars on to control their visibility. Works fine in the Detail Family file, but doesn't when imported into the wall based plumbing family file.

    Is this just a limitation of Revit or am I doing something wrong? Should the graphics all be in the plumbing family instead of trying to have nested families?
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    All AUGI, all the time eddy.lermytte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    Reid
    why don't you create a seperate Rfa for the grab bars > nest them into your Rfa > add a yes/ no visibility parameter(s) to achieve what you want.

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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    Then I'd need two more families: one for side wall; one for behind.

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    Revit Mararishi aaronrumple's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by raddis
    Then I'd need two more families: one for side wall; one for behind.
    You sure would - and that is the way to go. Actually they would be the same grab bar - just with different settings.

    Your detail family has a BIM problem. The side grab bar is visible from both the right and left views. Probably not what you want. You can use categories with details, but they will fall under detail items - not plumbing items. You really want them under plumbing. You also will need to use visibility controls for the filled regions rather than categories.

    Long term, you'll be much happier with nested components (specialty/generic in a plumbing family.) You'll get the scheduling you really want from BIM with this approach. As an added bonus - you'll have a grab bar you can use elsewhere.
    Last edited by aaronrumple; 2006-07-05 at 11:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    >>The side grab bar is visible from both the right and left views<<
    I thought I could control this with visibilty graphics in the view.

    >>You can use categories with details, but they will fall under detail items - not plumbing items. You really want them under plumbing<<
    But, Plumbing families don't allow for filled regions, so how do I hide wall tile? Also, why? For scheduling or estimating?

    >>use visibility controls for the filled regions rather than categories<<
    How and where do I do this? You don't mean course/medium/fine visibility do you? How would like help me turn on or off the side grab bar verses the rear one.

    >>Long term, you'll be much happier with nested components<<
    That's what I'm trying to do. Plan/Front/Side Detail families nested into a Plumbing Wall hosted family, then nested into a Master Plumbing family.

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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    OOO....
    But wait!
    When I load the nested family file into a project I CAN control the visibilty under Detail items (see attached jpg) which wasn't available in the Plumbing Family.

    So why is this bad?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Revit Mararishi aaronrumple's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by raddis
    >>The side grab bar is visible from both the right and left views<<
    I thought I could control this with visibilty graphics in the view.

    >>You can use categories with details, but they will fall under detail items - not plumbing items. You really want them under plumbing<<
    But, Plumbing families don't allow for filled regions, so how do I hide wall tile? Also, why? For scheduling or estimating?

    >>use visibility controls for the filled regions rather than categories<<
    How and where do I do this? You don't mean course/medium/fine visibility do you? How would like help me turn on or off the side grab bar verses the rear one.

    >>Long term, you'll be much happier with nested components<<
    That's what I'm trying to do. Plan/Front/Side Detail families nested into a Plumbing Wall hosted family, then nested into a Master Plumbing family.
    A. You don't want to control visibility of the grab bar per view with VG. You really don't. It is soooo not BIM. Proper BIM will help prevent coordination issues that a "layering" solution can cause. And what if you have two toilets in the same view - one right, one left? It is all or nothing at that point.

    B. You can make a grab bar and use a detail family within it if you like. However, a grab bar is such simple 3D geometry - just make a 3D sweep. It will hide the tile, etc. The reason I don't model plumbing fixtures is that getting the 3D to look right in plan/elevation just takes too much modeling time. Here a detail works better for me.

    C. Select the object. Go to properties. Look at Graphics->Visible. Select the button at the right - add a visibility parameter.

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    Revit Mararishi aaronrumple's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by raddis
    OOO....
    But wait!
    When I load the nested family file into a project I CAN control the visibilty under Detail items (see attached jpg) which wasn't available in the Plumbing Family.

    So why is this bad?
    1. You have extra "layers" you'll need to manage when exporting. These become nested layers inside AutoCAD blocks. Most architects don't like layers nested in our blocks. Our MEP hates them.

    2. Everyone will be looking for this under plumbing - not details. (Just like you did.)

    3. If you do this for every object type - you have a very long list under Detail Items. At that point you might as well go back to layers.

    4. If you have a toilet facing right, one facing left, in the same view, they will either both have have grab bars or they will both not have grab bars. There will be no way to mix one with and one without in the same view.

    5. This is BIM. You want to schedule the grab bars.

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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    Ok, I'll do it the BIM way.
    More questions:
    1. Side Grab Bar, Rear Grab Bar, and T.P. Holder will all need to be separate nested families?
    2. If I don't need the 3D, then just create them as a Detail Family using filled regions then nest them in the Plumbing family?

    >>Look at Graphics->Visible. Select the button at the right - add a visibility parameter.<<
    3. This would be a Family not Shared parameter yes? If so, what would its name and group parameter under be? It would be Instance I'm assuming.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Toilets Part 2

    Ok,
    I've separated all the components, created some Family Graphics Yes/No visibilty parameters, then loaded them all into a Plumbing wall hosted family file. Again, I can select a nested family and turn on or off it's visibility.

    However, when I load this into a project, poof! All those visibility parameters are gone, so I'm back at square 2, or 3.

    Any thoughts, please. See attached.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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