Doors & Windows in Thin Walls

[Roger Evans]

I am working on a conversion of an existing stable
External Wall Construction is Timber Clad on Stud overall thickness 100mm (4")

The Wall construction will be upgraded by adding an internal stud lining & I use join geometry to ensure openings are cut through the lnternal wall

Inserting standard windows & doors into a thin wall has been problematic & I have had to resort to using earlier door & window families which are accepted by the thin wall ( most Metric windows & doors are rejected)

My question is why ??? ... & the best method of doctoring these families to thin wall construction ????

[blads]

I am working on a conversion of an existing stable
External Wall Construction is Timber Clad on Stud overall thickness 100mm (4")

The Wall construction will be upgraded by adding an internal stud lining & I use join geometry to ensure openings are cut through the lnternal wall

Inserting standard windows & doors into a thin wall has been problematic & I have had to resort to using earlier door & window families which are accepted by the thin wall ( most Metric windows & doors are rejected)

My question is why ??? ... & the best method of doctoring these families to thin wall construction ????

what seems to be the problem Roger?

I do a lot of work in "thin walls" / timber framed construction and I haven't run into any problems as yet...

[Steve_Stafford]

If a door or window fail to insert into thin walls, then very often the geometry in the door family is constrained in such a way that the thin wall is trying to make "something" become "nothing" and Revit hates that.

So if a frame profile that sweeps the opening is forced to reduce the size of a "stop" to the point it must become nothing or less than nothing Revit will refuse to accept it.

Just take a closer look at the plan view of your door(s) to see what it is about its shape that might object to becoming very thin.

[Roger Evans]

Hi Blads ... This is the problem ....

Here is a screen capture after trying to insert Metric Single window ( window type rejected)

External Door Type on Right does not cut through internal wall after join geometry

The Middle door is an internal door type & cuts through

The windows shown are early Revit types & are accepted by thin walls & cut through

[Roger Evans]

If a door or window fail to insert into thin walls, then very often the geometry in the door family is constrained in such a way that the thin wall is trying to make "something" become "nothing" and Revit hates that.

So if a frame profile that sweeps the opening is forced to reduce the size of a "stop" to the point it must become nothing or less than nothing Revit will refuse to accept it.

Just take a closer look at the plan view of your door(s) to see what it is about its shape that might object to becoming very thin.

Steve ~ As far as I can see this problem occurs with all the standard Revit UK Window & Door Types ~ as though they have been made for thick walls & Cavity walls only ~
I am not sure what the minimum thickness of wall is for the door / window to be accepted (I hazard a guess at 200mm 8" )

[eddy.lermytte]

Roger
My guess is :
- in the Rfa of the door on the right of your attachment the door opening is created with a locked void (wall faces)
- the door opening in the Rfa of the door left is created with the opening tool

[blads]

Hi Blads ... This is the problem ....

Here is a screen capture after trying to insert Metric Single window ( window type rejected)

External Door Type on Right does not cut through internal wall after join geometry

The Middle door is an internal door type & cuts through

The windows shown are early Revit types & are accepted by thin walls & cut through

Hi Roger,

Steve's answer sounds about right but as I said I haven't experienced this problem down here. I can email you some aussie doors to see if they reproduce similar problems.
You still @ the same address

[Roger Evans]

Hi Roger, I can email you some aussie doors to see if they reproduce similar problems.
You still @ the same address

Yes Please ~ and unlikely to move house

I Attach one of the UK Family Type UK Flush Door giving probs as an example & like I said windows have same issues

[eddy.lermytte]

Roger

I took a look at the Rfa.

If I flex the wall thickness in the Rfa I have instantly an error. Obviously this is due to threshold extrusion and easy to fix.

As I expected the door opening is created with voids. If you unlock the voids and extend them beyond the wall faces the door Rfa will cut both joined walls in your project.

[Roger Evans]

Roger As I expected the door opening is created with voids. If you unlock the voids and extend them beyond the wall faces the door Rfa will cut both joined walls in your project.

Spot on Ta very much