Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Revit modeling

  1. #1
    Active Member
    Join Date
    2004-06
    Posts
    56

    Exclamation Revit modeling

    Revit is great in many ways. But by far my biggest gripe is the over-organization of its modeling abilities. The single most important aspect of modeling (and I might argue, of BIM) is the ability to go into a a model and simply create or edit what you want without headaches. LATER you can categorize it, and attach other information. Revit is horrible in this sense as a modeler. When you create an in-place family, you have to negotiate a series of dialog boxes to categorize your model before you start it. Also, in-place families have restrictions on them based on their categories...create a structural framing category, and you will then have a hard time moving it around and copying it, rotating it, etc, experiment a bit and see for yourself. It gives you all kinds of weird restrictions. If you want to create a sophisticated roof model with framing elements, etc..you have two choices. Build it as a highly inflexible in-place family or build it as a series of inserted families that created separately are positioned around (then with little editing ability to cut and shape elements with respect to one another). Either modeling option sucks and is second rate compared to any 1st generation modeler from any other system. Try creating and editing a complicated roof framing system that is custom...I dare you.

    Revit should learn from established modelers and give you the ability to create a simple friggin model without headaches. For custom work this is key! Better yet, it would also be great to add some sort of hierarchy view to the family editor so that you can create sophisticated 3d models (their solids and voids) and edit them efficiently. Check out Ironcad for a bit of learning about how to do this. BIM is fundamentally about modeling. How Revit has not figured this out in its 6th release is beyond me. Its still impossible to create something as simple as an interesting trellis...I need a degree in Revit software programming to achieve it.

  2. #2
    Revit Mararishi aaronrumple's Avatar
    Join Date
    2002-02
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,695

    Default Re: Revit modeling

    eh?

    First - you should limit your use of in-place family editing. In-place families are not as efficient as families.

    Second, within the family editor you can change and categorize your object/object quite easily. I'll often start with a generic model and convert it to structural or plumbing or whatever later.

    Finally, if you do like using another 3D modeler, use that and import the 3D into Viz. This can work quite well for quick sketches. However, if it is a parametric part you want - then stick with Revit. Revit may be a little different when it comes to 3D modeling because of the parametrics, but I find it no less efficient.

  3. #3
    Certifiable AUGI Addict Dimitri Harvalias's Avatar
    Join Date
    2015-12
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,753

    Default Re: Revit modeling

    Quote Originally Posted by juggergnat
    Its still impossible to create something as simple as an interesting trellis...I need a degree in Revit software programming to achieve it.
    I beg to differ. The thing that helps Revit stand out is the fact that you don't require any programming knowledge to make it work.
    The fact that it is based on what is achievable in the real world keeps you grounded (not restricted) as a designer. Not familiar enough with Ironcad to comment on its capabilities.
    Agreed that a dedicated modeling package such as Rhino is better at what it does but I sure don't think I'd want to be trying to create set of contract docs from it.
    I haven't found Revit restrictive or cumbersome for anything I've had to model to this point but it does take some rational thought, rather than just pushing and pulling control points, to create some geometry.

  4. #4
    Certifiable AUGI Addict
    Join Date
    2004-05
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    3,135

    Wink Re: Revit modeling

    Hmmm.....just so happens I've been modelling a trellis--which could be considered interesting. The whole thing took me about 3 hours from a blank screen to the rendered
    views. See attachment.

    I, too, was frustrated w/ Revit when we first dove in....coming from a AutoCad/ADT/Viz/Max/Microstation background. (I still love the "rotate 3d" command")---

    but, once acclimated to Revit's modeling environment, things are starting to gel....

    good luck modeling!

    cbc

  5. #5
    Autodesk Revit Developer
    Join Date
    2004-02
    Location
    Waltham
    Posts
    468

    Wink Re: Revit modeling

    Wow, that's a beautiful model. Only... what happens if I try to ride a bike through it?

  6. #6
    Revit Technical Specialist - Autodesk Scott D Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    2003-04
    Location
    Chino, CA
    Posts
    4,756

    Default Re: Revit modeling

    ummmmm...duck?

  7. #7
    Revit Arch. Wishlist Mgr. Wes Macaulay's Avatar
    Join Date
    2003-05
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Posts
    3,348

    Default Re: Revit modeling

    Revit's modelling IS a bit laborious. But it is precise... and parametric... and easily editable... and iterative. Not like other programs where once the boolean operations are complete, there's no going back to the original solid. I love that voids exist as their own object, so they can be modified and deleted even.

  8. #8
    Active Member
    Join Date
    2004-06
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: Revit modeling

    I guess my point here is not to trash Revit, it has improved the process quite a bit. But having read all comments here, believe me, there is no comparison between the free form modeling abiltities in Revit and other programs. When I say free form, I'm not talking about complex nurbs...its rare that someone needs to design compound curved structures (unless you work with Gehry or Zaha Hadid). What I'm talking about is just ease of use, and this does NOT imply a lack of accuracy. Just look at a program like Sketchup for simplicity of modeling. I could model (or rather, design) something 10x faster in Sketchup than I could in Revit (in terms of free-form elements). This has been such a strong consideration that I have considered abandoning Revit and using Sketchup for those tasks where Revit lags (like designing complicated trellis, beams, sloped elements, etc.) Despite the translation issues the contrast is just that significant. Granted...Sketchup is merely a polygon modeler (sections will not cut through as solids). But the issue for me is not whether Revit possesses the technology...the technology is within the program buried inside the family editor, the question is how easy is it to interactively edit it. The basic 4 types of solids or voids found within the family editor are quite capable for common architectural tasks (far more than nurbs in my view). But there should be: 1.)easy, common access to these tools without pre-emptive over-categorizing or layers of access for contextual situations, and 2.)a more capable organizational method within the family editor.

    Sketchup or Ironcad are excellent examples for Revit to follow here. Like Revit, Ironcad is 100% parametric consisting of solids and voids, and the tools are remarkably similar. Unlike Revit, you can rapidly model whatever you like, rotate elements in 3d space, cut and slice things all over without resorting to a separate "boolean" commands, then organize anything you want into simple groups, or groups of groups of groups, rename any part or the whole as you see fit, then drag the whole enchilada onto a shelf where you get an instant picture icon of it (now saved to a library). You can create instances or copies then edit them individually or as a group. You can also drag models on and off the shelfs and play around with them in 3d, and of course edit anything at any detail at any time. You can access a little explorer-like heirarchy that shows the entire composition of the model, right down to the last bolt...using this you could organize hundreds of levels easily if needed. If I want to edit the edge of a beam that I cut yesterday(say, with a void), I simply go to the explorer and select that specific void (which I maybe called "edge of beam cut @kitchen column") from within the heirarchy and edit it. Revit could do this too...the same technology is in there, it just needs to be organized with modelers in mind. I cannot tell you how much more powerful Revit would get with something like this. Ever tried a complex model within the family editor? If you have a lot of solids and voids in close proximity you will have trouble selecting the ones that you want, differentiating them.

    About the idea of modeling without in-place families, I understand this concept, but it doesn't work for me. Why? It implies that you know the exact components of your models before you start, and I don't...that's the fun of design. With Revit, when you insert rafters for example, you then only can access their parameters (length, width, material) from within dialog boxes in the form of numerical commands. Consider the components of Sketchup as a lesson here. In Sketchup you simply double click the inserted component and you can edit its family definition, or its individual definition (same goes with Ironcad). Furthermore, the interaction of inserted components...the cutting and placing of things is more important to me than the imported family itself. Most conditions are like this in the buildings I work with...if they weren't I wouldn't want to be an architect. Everything is about cutting this wall here, and chopping that there, and strange and weird conditions. Those are the special places that make a building something special. I want to be able to drag and stretch things around, and cut them out of each other, contextual design. This is the value for me with 3d modeling in the design process...the idea that you don't know what you really want before you start. You need to experiment, and experimentation implies flexibility.

    Finally, Revit already has the technology! Please Revit team, just learn from the others and add a great thing when you see it...you will see a quantum leap in the complexity of models that come out of Revit practically overnight. And new potential users of Revit will see these images and know with confidence that they can accomplish anything within the program.

    JG

  9. #9
    Revit Arch. Wishlist Mgr. Wes Macaulay's Avatar
    Join Date
    2003-05
    Location
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    Posts
    3,348

    Default Re: Revit modeling

    You can graphically edit families... just have "strong reference" ref planes in them, and then Tab-select them in the project.

    But I like what I'm hearing about Ironcad... sounds like they're on to something.

    W.

  10. #10
    All AUGI, all the time BillyGrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    2004-04
    Location
    in a calm assertive state
    Posts
    638

    Default Re: Revit modeling

    excellent crit and observations juggergnat...

    that is of course if you are correct about Revit having the technology you refer to, and it's
    cumbersome interface being the weak leak.

    intuitive modeling is very important to the creative process, and i think you are right that
    revit should be more intuitive in the area of component creation/editability.

    often times (my own lack of deep knowledge regarding the program) i will get hit with
    that designer's inspiration during the creation of a model, only to totally loose site
    of that vision, through frustration, once i attempt to "create" what my mind's eye was inspired toward.
    Last edited by BillyGrey; 2004-08-15 at 04:16 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 2015: Revit Modeling
    By jeffrdavis7686443 in forum Revit Structure - General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 2014-12-24, 04:48 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2014-12-01, 03:38 AM
  3. 2014: Revit Modeling
    By sm.uludoan409121 in forum Revit Architecture - General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 2013-08-07, 06:34 PM
  4. Rendering / Modeling in Revit
    By .chad in forum Revit Architecture - General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2006-09-07, 09:53 PM
  5. about revit modeling
    By jiaoyanbing in forum Revit Architecture - General
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 2005-04-04, 04:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •