Layer Freeze vs. Layer Off

[irneb]

Simply regarding the logic - layer states management is a very recent addition to the acad toolbox

Yes, but there was LMAN in the Express tools which did much the same thing.

I can't tell you how many drawings/hardcopys in our office are screwed up because people here use a combination of ON/OFF and Freeze/Thaw to display their layers and as soon as someone else gets in and isolates a layer and then turns all the layers back ON... chaos!

That's just my point! There are very worthy reasons for using both - not simply Temporary / Permanent. You get different results by using OFF / Freeze. The final printed page could even look different if you've changed all the OFF layers to Frozen (or visa-versa). If you're only working with lines then fine - there won't be any difference. But as soon as you're using Blocks or (especially) XRefs you've got to be very careful about using Freeze as it could turn "off" stuff you didn't want turned "off".

The attached shows the reason I'm talking about. There's 4 layers: 0, Layer1, -2 & -3. A line on each, with a duplicate placed inside a block - this block is inserted on Layer3. Drawing Freeze has everything turned ON, with only Layer3 Frozen, while Drawing OFF has everything Thawed with only Layer3 OFF. Now you can see that the lines inside the block behave VERY DIFFERENT in the 2 scenarios. So depending on what you wanted you may want to use Freeze instead of OFF - irrespective of whether the change should be permanent or not.

[jaberwok]

Uh oh...you just dated those of us who joined in the debate a few posts ago...

I remember AutoCAD R10

Hey! I remember v2.5!
How's that for dated?

[Coolmo]

The attached shows the reason I'm talking about. There's 4 layers: 0, Layer1, -2 & -3. A line on each, with a duplicate placed inside a block - this block is inserted on Layer3. Drawing Freeze has everything turned ON, with only Layer3 Frozen, while Drawing OFF has everything Thawed with only Layer3 OFF. Now you can see that the lines inside the block behave VERY DIFFERENT in the 2 scenarios. So depending on what you wanted you may want to use Freeze instead of OFF - irrespective of whether the change should be permanent or not.

I understand the whole thing about blocks and how OFF and Frozen affects the layers inside. I personally would never set up my layers like that whereas a layer INSIDE a block would need to be shown but the layer the block was on wouldn't. Seems wacky.

Layer manager works great but with all the "stuff" we get from other companies and all the new layers that might pop up in the duration of a project, I'd hate to have to chase my tail by catching EVERY drawing up to speed with all of these new layers by setting up a layer state and re-saving it every time a layer is created in the base drawings or xrefs. Something could, and would, get missed and then you'd have layers showing up in hardcopies unexpected. With my way, freezing what ya don't want to see and thawing what you do, this VERY simple rule saves a tremendous amount of time and there's no guess as to what has been saved and what hasn't (in a layer state). To each his own.

[Capt. Computer Crasher]

well usually if I am not going to use the layer in a drawing but still want the info on the layer in the drawing (just in case) I use both Off and freeze then I lock it.

[CADDmanVA]

Hey! I remember v2.5!
How's that for dated?

You win.

[Mufasa23]

I just wanna addd one thing: Even though Layer States are alot newer than the theories of on/off vs. freeze/thaw: I find it good practice to create a layer state in any drawing where this may be an issue called As Intended. So, when you or someone else messes up the settings, you have something to fall back on. However, this isn't totally foolproof due to the fact if new layers are created then they're not included in your original As Intended layer state, but it does provide a good starting point to say the least.

[Coolmo]

So, when you or someone else messes up the settings, you have something to fall back on. However, this isn't totally foolproof due to the fact if new layers are created then they're not included in your original As Intended layer state, but it does provide a good starting point to say the least.

The good thing in this situation is that I have a little program that saves about 200 entries inside of every file opened and saved that tells me who was in it and when they opened it. One command accesses the dictionary database from the file. Gotcha! Some people hate this program but the majority of us here swear by it for security reasons. I wrote it about 8-9 years ago though. I'm sure AutoCAD has something in place now that does the same thing.... actually... do they?

[sthedens]

I personally would never set up my layers like that whereas a layer INSIDE a block would need to be shown but the layer the block was on wouldn't. Seems wacky.

As in:
Wacky = Crazy,
Wacky = Cool, as in "Playstation is Wack!" or
Wacky = Elegantly Sophisticated (my preference)

[jaberwok]

Wacky =

[irneb]

Another idea would be to create your layers with a very defined naming system (something like ACA / ISO) then use layer filters (using wildcards where needed) so you can have a set of layers displayed in the Layer Properties under a branch. This would work for all those new layers as well, but it breaks down as soon as someone adds a non-standard layer name. Also, don't create too many filters - it slows down your drawing a lot!

So it's a toss-up as to which you prefer to use: Freeze/Off; States; or Filters.